There’s actually more (!):
In addition to that, at least on my installation (v13), if you create a new output bus it shows up in the mixer but you can’t change track color (in the mixer). In order to make that possible you have to both toggle W and close and re-open the mixer window.
Not sure if it’s only for output buses or if it also applies to inputs.
Yet another strange and somewhat annoying oddity that should have been fixed.
FYI I’m not sure I understand your solution. Please explain that in a precise step-by-step procedure.
@stringraystringraystringraystringray
Its IMHO overdue to get a more flexible and customer friendly solution as proposed.
Do it controllably per window.
As an option you might want to keep the synch possibility for those people who want to control it in one place.
But then I would place it to the main view, not to the Mixer view.
Why? Its pretty certain, that the Main view will always be opened, its the central place.
True, another location to filter. To be able to filter by “categories” of tracks and channels.
In addition to that you can filter with higher granularity using “Visibility”.
But again, same “problematic”, input channels can only be filtered in the MixConsole.
2. MixConsole (F3) window: “Kanalarten filtern”
But once you toggle W the channels in question should also be visible in the project window, and then you can toggle their visibility there. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean above?
I was thinking the same thing.
@chillipepper I do understand the main element of the issue and it is a long standing one. It could certainly benefit from some kind of solution. Since we can make the inputs / outputs appear in the Project window by using the ‘activate Write’ workaround I see no reason why we should not have a direct switch of some kind which does the same thing.
However, in the meantime, for activating the input channel in the Project window, there’s a slightly more convenient workaround than having to manually activate / de-activate the Write Status. In effect this is like making your own switch. First select the Input/Output folder in the Project window track list and then execute the following macro:
Put a keyboard shortcut on this and it’s pretty much instantaneous. This is for one input channel only but could probably be adapted to account for multiple missing input / output channels too.
P.S. selecting the Input/Output folder before using the Macro avoids inconsistencies in the behaviour of the Macro depending upon what is selected in the track list. To avoid having to do this manually, you could make a PLE preset to do it automatically and then include the above macro in the Post-Process commands. The PLE preset would look like this:
Once again, this can be triggered via a keyboard shortcut.
@MatthiasNYC: Sorry, but enabling “W” on all channels one by one can only be regarded as a clumsy workaround, not a proper solution. Therefore, please stop suggesting this repeatedly! If you prefer it that way, go ahead — that’s your choice.
But don’t expect me to consider this acceptable or efficient.
From software of this caliber, I expect more refined and practical handling.
We’re not talking about Audacity or similar entry-level tools here.
@stingray: who are you? From Steinberg or an end-customer?
I didn’t say I preferred it that way or that it is efficient or acceptable.
What I said was that your description (“(2) Remaining issue”) seemed to be inaccurate.
Please read it in the context again, its a completely valid statement.
I don’t see how you “still have no control here” after you toggled W.
After you have toggled the track once, you do have control in the project window’s Visibility tab of that track moving forward. Are you talking about something else here?
I also don’t really understand what you mean when you say “(4) You see already Inputs/outputs, but only tracks are shown, no inputs.” Input buses are shown. They have no “tracks” per se, same as with Groups and Output buses.
I have to say that I don’t quite understand Steinberg’s thought process for the current design. It seems to be mixed up.
Currently there is no control over visibility of input or output busses because they are not tracks, only channels. Therefore they cannot be accessed in the track list and its visibility tab. So far, so consistent.
But then you have two exemptions: (1) the default output bus is shown as a track; (2) clicking the W button will create a track for each input / output bus.
In order to make things consistent there should either be no track for a bus channel at all. But that would mean we cannot draw and view automation there. Or every bus channel should get its track. This latter possibility is basically what the feature request is about.
Like I said earlier, it just looks like a bug. I think it’s probably quibbling over semantics, but to me at least it really seems like it’s always a track and that it’s just not visible by default when it’s created, for some strange reason (bug or on purpose).
I obviously agree that it should become visible by default just like everything else. Either that or give us the option to make it the default.
Sigh..
Lets start with an empty project. These are my inputs and outputs:
%——————Next Snapshot——————-
Here Project Window and MixConsole Window side by side.
(1) Why are the Inputs only visible in the MixConsole window? The “Visibility” tab also exists in the Project window, with the same name and the same layout.
So why isn’t it used consistently across both views?
(2) My Main Proposal is, to add Inputs to Project Window, so that it is consistent and by this easier to find and operate.
%——————Next Snapshot——————-
(1) As you could see in the previous screenshot, the “Input/Output” folder is collapsed by default. Why? It contains our standard input and main mix buses, as defined under Audioconnections (Inputs, Outputs). Why do I always have to open it manually on a new project (not speaking of templates here). I talk about defaults that might make more sense.
(2) Bug?! Why do we NOT see our standard input bus in the TAB “Visibilty” under the folder “Input/Output” as defined in Audio Connections?
%——————Next Snapshot——————-
Now the issue with the workaround using “W”.
The workaround using “W” on MixConsole Window.
Open MixConsole.
(1) Click to “W” on an (one!) input channel
(2) Then you see (magic, magic) the (one!) input Channel under Visibility. Only ONE!!!
%——————Next Snapshot——————-
(1) This was a lot of effort having to click on each of the W buttons to get all inputs into the TAB “Visibility” in the Project Window. 33x in this case, but my RME HDSPe MADI FX has 194 inputs, guess how much work this can be in the worst case.
(2) Now I have everywhere on each input “R” and “W” activated, which neither I want and which is nor “required”. So I have to deactivate it by clicking to “R” (which also disables “W”) in each of the channels in Project and MixConsole view. Worst case for me 194*2 = 384 clicks. What an “joy”!
%——————Next Snapshot——————-
Ironically .. after all this unnecessary work of
a) clicking to "W2 on each input in MixConsole (to get all inputs into the Visibility Tab of Project Window) and
b) deactivating the “color firework” of “R’s” and “W’s” in all channels of Project Window and MixConsole
the desired functionality is finally there, Inputs are visible in “Visibility” TAB of Project Window and it also stays after removing all the “R’s” and “W’s”.
So why not from the start without all these efforts?
And if you consider, that there are customer with cards with a high channel count (194 inputs here) its obvious that such a “workaround” (I refuse to call it a solution) does not scale in any way.
And .. you simply have to know it, same like the operation via MixConsole.
No customer will know all this upfront and this is really not user friendly.
I expect a better operation / workflow from such professional Products like Nuendo and also Cubase, there you have the same issue.
I think my request was clear to the beginning.
I tried to make it now clearer than clear in the hope, that we can end discussions.
Many thanks for your cooperation upfront.
Cheers.
FYI it’s not necessary to do all this. You can click on the global Write and Read Commands on the Project window toolbar instead which achieves the same result in two moves.
This is not to say that we don’t need a better solution and I agree with your request to make this easier and more user-friendly. In essence, it would seem the request is that every bus channel should get its own track in the Project window by default from the outset as expressed in the following:
However, while this may seem a reasonable request it may present issues for systems with large numbers of inputs and outputs which take up a lot of space in the track list. The user may want to choose which channels are present and visible and if they are all showing might have to manually disable the visibility of a large number of tracks - and so wouldn’t necessarily have gained anything by having them all present and visible by default. This aspect may be one of the reasons for the current implementation.
Don’t get me wrong, this is not to say that the current implementation cannot be improved.
Ok @stingray thanks for making your intention clear, maybe there was a misunderstanding from my side.
Thanks for pointing to the global r and w buttons, I forgot them.
I asked a simple question so there was no need at all for all of that text.
Here is your own answer to my question:
You said earlier that you “still have no control here”, and that is clearly wrong.
I don’t really care that you miswrote that, I just want to make sure that if people read your posts it is clear how things work. That was the only reason I brought that up. It was neither a disagreement with your feature request nor was it an attack on you.
I have quite clearly described my case. Others have already agreed on it.
If you still don’t understand what it’s about, then I’m sorry.
So did I. Did you miss that?
Clearly you don’t listen very well to what people are saying.
Best of luck moving forward.
