open letter to Steinberg: loyalty rewards

Steinberg Lounge
1

Hello Steinberg,

I’ve been a loyal Cubase user since the Atari days, admittedly starting out with a crack of Cubase 2.0, but loving it so much I bought the full version of Cubase VST3.7 when I got a new PC in 1999/2000.

In 2007, I bought Cubase 4 at full retail price (€850) as there was no upgrade path. No problem, it was entirely new software and a vast improvement so I had no qualms about it.

That was different one or two years later, when Cubase 5 was released at only €500. While I understood that you had to drop the price to compete with Apple’s Logic, it was hard to stomach the fact that I had to pay €200 to update, which made my effective cost €1050, or double what a new user would pay!
It felt like I was being punished for my loyalty, but I ponied up anyway, and 5.5 really had terrific new stuff like VariAudio, so I forgot about the pain and got on with it.

I moved to the USA, so we’re talking dollars henceforth, and I paid yet another $200 for the update to 6.5, which I felt I needed for the 64-bit thing. It wasn’t as rock solid as 5.5 was (easily the best iteration of Cubase, in my experience), and a little slower, too, but at least I could now address all of my memory.

Being a loyal user, I also bought HalionSonic (€250) when it came out, and liked it so much I upgraded to Halion 4 when that was released ($100). Both were unreliable in their first iterations, but they got substantially better with v2 and v5 respectively. Still, at first it felt like I paid to beta-test, something I did not appreciate.

In the last few years, I did not upgrade to Cubase 7 and 8 because they did not offer any compelling reason to do so. Sure, ASIO guard and its promised improved performance on OSX was something I wanted, but many users reported that it was not an improvement at all, some even said it was actually worse than before, so I held off.

Until now. I updated my studio computer to OSX Mavericks for workflow improvements, and this has caused Cubase 6.5.5 to behave erratically, and a key feature like mp3 export no longer works. You tell me that C6.5 is not officially supported on OSX Mavericks, and the only solution is to update to Cubase 8.5.5 at $250, or revert back to OSX Mountain Lion.

All other software works fine, by the way.

So now I’m faced with this choice:

  • Revert back to OSX Mountain Lion, which is essentially just delaying the inevitable
  • Upgrade to Cubase 8.5 for $250
  • Switch DAW’s and buy Logic Pro X for $200, which includes the excellent Alchemy synth

Although I have used ProTools and Logic many times in the past, I’d really rather not have to learn a new DAW. Cubase isn’t perfect, but I’m comfortable with it and prefer to focus my energy on other things.
And yet, the thought of forking out another $250 for an update I don’t really want or need is becoming increasingly hard to stomach. At this point, I’ve spent at least $1250 on Cubase in the last nine years, and there are no signs of it ever stopping. I understand you need to improve your product and development comes at a cost, but I feel some sort of loyalty rewards program should be instated for longtime users like myself.

Steinberg, it has been mostly good, but not all good. I’m a loyal customer on the fence, looking for a reason to stay. Think about it.


P.S. I would have addressed this to your sales support/enquiry team, but there seems to be none?

2

Good thing you’re not playing golf then? :wink:

3

I have used about $4K on Steinberg & Yamaha products in the last 5 years. Each purchase was a value based decision that I don’t yet regret. I’m not yet a professioal user so no write-offs. My enjoyment and the quality interactions with other users has been huge. $60 Canadian to uprade to 8.5 and get VST Transit was a no brainer, less than an NHL ticket or a night out and I’ll get hundreds of hours of satisfaction. This despite my paying $800 for version 8 less than 2 years ago. To me the rewards system is integral already. Business law dictates that nothing is free. Loyalty programs are scams paid for by price increases and the additional administration required adds to cost and pulls budget money and focus away from R&D. I prefer that Steinberg focus on a passion for music and avoid marketing fluff & B.S… let’s challenge our folks at Steinberg when we know they need to improve product or service. But the last phone call I ever want to have to make is to a Steinberg loyalty program representative to ask why my $10 rebate hasn’t arrived. That would truly be a huge waste of time considering I could have spent those minutes making music!

4

My advice is:

Run a demo for 8.5 and see if you like (you can install it without disturbing 6.5.5). Then you will be able to decide with a better perspective.

5

Well said :sunglasses:

6

It seems a bit disingenuous to say Steinberg AND Yamaha. I’d have trouble understanding how one would spend 4K on Steinberg products alone. Even if you bought Nuendo and Cubase and Absolute.

Loyalty programs are scams paid for by price increases and the additional administration required adds to cost and pulls budget money and focus away from R&D.

If you are talking air miles and bonus points, yes. I thought it was clear from my post that I wasn’t talking about that sort of loyalty rewards, but in case it wasn’t: I don’t mean coupons, mail-in rebates, club cards or whatever else passes for ‘reward’ these days.
Steinberg knows who I am, and what I have spent. Only they can determine whether or not I am a valued customer.

My point remains: when it is cheaper to buy LogicProX than to update Cubase, Steinberg needs to re-evaluate their update pricing scheme.

7

Sorry, I might of got a bit off your theme. I included my stage piano, monitors, interface, Grand 3, Symphonic etc. in my dollar amount. I do still believe that the rewards are integral already. I bought a UR 44 interface and it came with a free DAW that I gave away. That person used it to get a discount when upgrading to Cubase 8.5 and we now collaborate over VST Transit. I really have ended up being satisfied overall and hope that your future experiences are satisfying as well regardless of what direction you choose.

8

Good tip, thanks.

I installed the trial last night, let’s see what happens over the next 30 days.

9

In my opinion, loyalty rewards are for companies with inferior products as a way to “sweeten the deal”. Or, for an equal product that just costs more, in which case, the consumer is paying the reward to themselves. :confused: Choose a product because it is the best value for you, not because it offers rewards. And, if you choose a product because it is the best value for you, are you being loyal to that product or to yourself? :open_mouth:

Its ok to be loyal to yourself…

10

Well, I’m near the end of my 8.5 trial, and have observed the following:

  • Cubase 8.5 ‘unexpectedly quits’ when I close it. Not a big deal, I guess, since I’m closing anyway, but not the way it should be.

  • Groove Agent SE is NOT backward-compatible with Groove Agent One. That was also the case when HalionSE superseded HalionOne, but at least projects with HalionOne instantiated could still open a bridged version of the legacy plugin. Not so with GA1 in 8.5 This is a rather large inconvenience. Thumbs down.

  • Subjectively, ASIO guard seems to have improved LLP somewhat. But the large meter takes up a lot of screen real estate.

  • VariAudio now shows different pitches all in the same color. No idea why Steinberg thinks this is better. You can probably change that, but I haven’t had time to figure it all out.

  • The consolidated instrument track/rack window…I don’t know. Maybe it makes sense to new users? Not to me. And I can’t be bothered to figure out how to remove instruments either. Oh, and maybe the new UI is designed for retina displays, but on my 1920x1080 screen this window takes up too much screen real estate, too.

  • I do think it is great that projects made in C8.5 can be opened in 6.5.5 That wasn’t always possible before.

I suppose I could learn to adapt to the things that are different, but at this point I’m thinking that time may be better spent on learning a new DAW altogether. I see nothing in 8.5 that is worth another $250.

For now, though, I’ll stay put with 6.5.5 (somehow mp3 export magically restored itself…) and when a future OS update breaks it, I’ll have to accept that change is inevitable.

11
  • The consolidated instrument track/rack window…I don’t know. Maybe it makes sense to new users? Not to me. And I can’t be bothered to figure out how to remove instruments either. Oh, and maybe the new UI is designed for retina displays, but on my 1920x1080 screen this window takes up too much screen real estate, too.

Fully agree with this one. The old instrument rack was very small, now it’s huge and includes both rack and track instruments!
I also can’t find a way to name instruments. If I have several instances of the same VSTi there’s no way to directly see which is which.

12

I hadn’t read that before. Is that something the user can change? I can’t imagine using VariAudio with all the notes the same color …

13

I can get different colors if I want. It’s based on pitch. Depends what you want to choose from the menu dropdown.

14

Mine came that way by default, maybe I’m misunderstanding but I thought he was saying the notes were all monochrome on his system. Maybe his system didn’t ship with colored notes already turned on …

15

How do you mean?

In C5.5 and 6.5 VariAudio assigned discrete colors to different pitches by default. In C8.5 they are all the same color. I’m sure this can be changed, but haven’t had time to figure out how. I just don’t understand why they changed that. Seems like a step back.

16

This feature is unchanged for many versions of Cubase. Perhaps the default changed, or you changed it unintentionally. as RickerHart said, there is a drop-down menu in the toolbar that is labeled with the current choice of what to color-code. Change it to Pitch and you’ll be all set.

17

OK, thanks. It’ll be a moot point in 4 days, anyway, but good to know.