Output sound is different on CDs to Wave files

That’s what I think it is but won’t know for sure until some different headphones arrive on Wednesday. I’m super happy with my wave file masters, I just want some decent CDs for a few family members and friends that don’t use the internet for music and still use HiFi.

Fo sure,

I think it’s worth testing the audio in several setups and devices, though.

Good luck with this issue; I hope it gets solved :+1:

A CD OR a .wav file can sound completely different on different systems, I expect that’s what you’re hearing. Can you play the cd on your computer and A/B it to the .wav?

After thinking about the post for a few hours, maybe that’s some mono compatibility issue? You certainly do get differences in dynamic range because of CD being 16 bit, but it wouldn’t have any effect on the mix itself. A mix with poor mono compatibility playing through a mono system or downmixed to mono would.

Thanks for your inputs Pete and Bruno. At the moment I’m leaning towards the mix be a little off due to some overly bright headphones that I’ve been inadvertently monitoring with. I’ll know more for sure after some well-respected headphones have been delivered next week and I’ll post the findings here.

I’m finding this thread a bit confusing. But what I can gather is that you’re comparing the sound of a WAV file through headphones with the sound of a CD through a hifi/tv, and are surprised that they sound different.
If that’s the case, you’re not comparing like with like.
Play both the WAV file and the CD through, say, the Windows Media player, and then see if there’s a difference. Or put the WAV on a USB stick and play it through your hifi/tv (if possible).
Also: Mixing through headphones is fraught with difficulty.

Hi Googly, really nice to hear from you Sir!

I’ve pretty much got to the stage where I can rule out differences between HiFi systems through speakers and WAV files through headphones being the problem. It appears that my mix is accurate for WAV file listening but somewhat off for home HiFi speakers, due to having mixed using headphones that have a brighter than normal sound. I’ve ordered some more neutral headphones that are coming next week and, after using them to monitor, hope to tweak my mix so that my songs sound better on more devices.

This whole situation has taught me something really important - we all hear music differently, nobody will hear my songs as I intended them to be. Every single speaker, amplifier and headphone is set differently. Each human hears differently because of age, the environment they are in, even the amount of wax they might have in their ears. So all we can do as music producers is come to the best compromise - which is what I hope to achieve.

I have to use headphones to monitor because I live in an apartment and can’t risk upsetting the neighbours with loud music that may not be to their liking! :squinting_face_with_tongue:

Wise words :slight_smile:

When you are mixing, please keep in mind that level is of the utmost importance! I can’t stress this enough: It decisively influences the perceived loudness of specific frequency ranges (low end, mids, high end; do a search on the Fletcher-Munson Curve). In other words: mixing at high levels might lead to bad mixing decisions and mixing at too low levels might also give you the wrong idea.

I have a similar scenario with my home studio, where I can use my monitor speakers during the day, but have to use headphones at night since my studio is the room adjoining the unit next to me. (And I’m often working late into the evening, too.)

One thing I’ve found that helps immensely when mixing on headphones, including helping cut down on the number of issues discovered later in a car listening test (which I still always make before releasing a recording, but also anytime I have a new mix ready to go before any sort of excursion in my car – e.g. today’s grocery shopping trip), is using plugins that simulate multiple types of speakers and/or environments.

The ones I use are from Waves, mostly from their Nx Virtual Studio Collection (4 total environments, including 3 modeled in well-known studios), but also their Abbey Road Studio 3 (which was the first one I acquired). Each plugin includes multiple sets of virtual speakers, typically full-range speakers and nearfields or mid-range speakers, sometimes with an additional type – e.g. CLA Nx has a boombox, which is particularly interesting for getting a very different perspective. And switching between virtual studios (I keep these plugins in Control Room inserts so I can enable whichever one I want to use at the moment without affecting my mixdown), can give even more perspectives than an individual plugin can. There are other brands of software that can do a similar thing. I’m aware of at least Steven Slate VMX and Sonarworks SoundID, but I haven’t tried those.

From my perspective, the goal isn’t to feel like you’re mixing in some high-end studio (though it may come closer to that than just mixing through headphones without that type of plugin). Rather, it is to get a number of different perspectives on the mix before taking the time to make a mix in a format your car’s stereo can play (in my case I have to use MP3 files on a USB stick, or I could burn a CD), or that a home stereo could play (my TV can play WAV files on a USB stick, and my Blu-Ray player can play CDs and probably also other optical disk formats), or even writing a WAV file to listen on computer speakers or with headphones that play off the computer’s built-in soundcard. It’s easy to just change perspectives by switching plugins or speakers within a given plugin while mixing in Cubase.

The bottom line is every different type of playback device used, and the same playback device used in different environments, will sound different between characteristics of the devices themselves and, when not using headphones, the characteristics of the room (e.g. speaker placement, reflections of the walls, windows, and furniture, etc.). So the goal isn’t so much to optimize for any one device and environment, but rather to make sure the mix translates well to as many different devices/environments as possible. It used to be that I’d almost always find issues, especially with low-end, when doing car listening tests. I still do occasionally, but nowhere near as frequently as before I started using these solutions.

Question, why are your headphones plugged into your keyboard and not your soundcard?

That was my initial thought when I read this post, too, but I looked up the specific keyboard used, and it has a built-in USB audio interface, so it likely is the OP’s sound card.

I will Reco. There seems to be a lot more to music production than I imagined. I still tend to go by this golden rule: Does it sound right?

That is exactly right, the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver is excellent. Plus my computer is a fair way from where I work whereas the keyboard is right there.

Exactly. I’ll look into some of the software you have recommended. Thanks.

The Yamaha PSR-EWR425 keyboard has a built-in USB audio interface with an excellent driver which is higher spec than the soundcard in my computer. Plus the keyboard is nearer so I don’t have a trailing headphone cable.

You rock Paul Bryce. The AKGs arrived this morning had have totally solved the problem. Thank-you, I owe you a coffee or beer if we ever get to meet. :innocent: G4M super fast with delivery and I’ve been using the new phones for most of the day. At first I thought I’d bought a pup, they sounded just like the awful CD I’d made. But of course they would, that was the problem. Once I’d made adjustments to the mix in order to get the song sounding as it should, all was fine. Vocals and high pitches had to come down, bass and percussion up. Such a difference to the Sony phones. This has taught me not to rely on something just because it is branded Professional.

Most importantly, I’ve burnt a CD and it now sounds as good as 16 bit is going to get.

I’d like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread - who knew Paul had the answer at post 2!

It will now be nice to stop worrying about technical stuff for a while and get back to what I enjoy most - writing lyrics and songs. All the best,

Phil.

Hi Phil,

So glad the fix was simple and relatively cheap. !!

Doesn’t hurt to have various models in your arsenal.

I’ll have to pass on the coffee or beer, don’t drink either of them. :rofl:

Have a great day.

Of course it does. It hurts your wallet.

That’s just normal Gear Acquisition Syndrome,

Knowing your headphones inside out is as important as the headphones themselves. Same applies for monitors: It takes time to really understand them and how they interact with the room.
That’s why I am not too eager to replace monitoring systems just like that.