Panning issue

This may well be a duh kinda question, but…

I noticed this first with guitar audio tracks. Even if I am panned center, the guitar sounds like it is coming more from the left in playback. In fact, if I pan right the guitar drops out completely. I can’t find any setting that is making it record left. I then noticed that at least on a vocal track I have just done if I now pan right, the voice thins out, though unlike the guitar does not disappear completely, and if I pan left – on an already recorded track, that is – the voice loses none of its volume.
I just now tested and used a preset Clean Guitar and Voice to set up a new project and the guitar is panned left. I then created new audio track, same thing.
This is a mono in stereo out set up, so perhaps once I mix down into stereo the panning is balanced, or?
If it is not that, what might be causing this?

Some things to check…

Most important… verify that the input bus you are using is set as a mono bus in the VST connections menu.

I always record my mono audio input buses to a stereo audio track (not mono audio track) which goes to the main stereo output bus.

Reason… if you assign a stereo vst effect to a mono audio track recorded from a mono audio bus only the left side of the effect can be heard.

I was questioned about that advice so I started a brief thread about it that you can look at in the link below. It lists a few other routing methods that hopefully will also take care of this concern.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=100307

Regards

I assume that you are talking about inserts here Prock. Obviously on a mono track you will not get a stereo efx. Also you will not be able to balance the dry and wet signal unless the EFX has wet/dry controls. If I am applying delay or reverb I would inevitably use a send for my effects. These of course can apply stereo to the mono signal as the efx buss is usually stereo, provided that is how you have set it up. Of course if you are wanting to use a chain of efx you can still create this in a send channel, with the advantage of being able to balance the effects against the dry sound of the original channel.

Just a thought. If you use VST3 efx they detect when they are being inserted onto a mono track and adapt accordingly.

I use mono channels all the time for guitar and have not noticed a bias to the left. In fact I am listening to a guitar track right now…dead centre.

Of course there is no reason not to use a stereo track. This can be good if you have two different amps/cabs miked up in stereo. However in this instance you have to be careful with the panning and make sure that you use the Stereo Combined panner. This will preserve the stereo integrity of your recording when you pan it, as you can define how wide you want the stereo image. You can find this above the Channel Setting windows meter - the downward arrow when the hover buttons appear. You can choose between the Stereo Combined Panner and the Stereo Balance Panner.

Hello,

the issue here is probably using a stereo input channel. When you have a stereo input, it defaults to Input 1 (Left) and Input 2 (Right). If you connect the guitar to Input 1, this will result in the guitar sound coming only out of the left channel.

Please, set a mono input in the VST Connections and assign it to the audio card’s input you are using for the guitar (and remember to change the source on the audio track).

A mono input can be used to drive both a mono channel and a stereo channel (in this case, the same signal will be sent to both sides, not just left).

Take a look at the link I posted… Try that quick experiment I list in that link and see what happens. When recording a mono audio bus to a stereo audio track you don’t get a stereo recorded file. It is mono just like if recorded to a mono audio track. If you try that experiment please report back in that thread. Thanks

Regardless… the first thought in my first post above is probably the issue for this one.

Regards :sunglasses:

I quite understand that it is basically a double mono file. However I probably did not explain myself well enough, as if for instance you use IK Amplitude on that stereo track and run two rigs panned left and right using the combined panner keeps the two signals audible, yet still placed in the stereo field.

To be honest I have never had any issues using mono tracks, as long as you understand the limitations when applying plugins. To be honest I don’t usually pile a lot of effects on my guitars. An insert compressor or sometimes parallel compression, delay and reverb sends usually does the trick for me.

It’s not basically a double mono file…it is absolute 100% mono.
Double mono must have 2 channels. A file created as Prock describes has one channel only.

If you like, a stereo file containing two mono channels. A right channel and a left channel. It does have two channels as seen on the audio clip. I agree that double mono would have two separate tracks.

Sorry but that’s exactly the opposite of what it is.

It is a mono file containing 1 channel
There is no left and right as it’s 1 channel
It definitely does not have 2 channels as shown on the audio clip

Most people dont get the “Mono Input bus” part.

Thank you for the explanation. I feel an idiot here, as I have just created a part as you described. A mono clip is indeed the result. Weird as it is to say that when I use the mono input bus I always use it into a mono track. I have a Kemper Profiling Amp and for a guitar track in stereo I either run a mono or stereo feed with a stereo input bus with two channels out of the Kemper.

Does the resulting track take up the same space or size as a stereo track? Presumably if you can process with stereo efx insert there must be a left and right channel for the efx to work properly. It wouldn’t be mono in stereo out? Or would it?

Man… wish we could continue this conversation here…

I was trying to figure out why would I EVER want to record a mono audio bus to a mono audio track.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=100307

Btw… files recorded from a mono bus to a mono or stereo track are exactly the same size and a stereo track can be routed the same as a mono track if you see fit. The only difference I have been able to figure is that stereo inserts sound good when assigned to a stereo track and don’t when assigned to a mono. Try the quick test I list in the link to see and hear what I have noticed.

Regards. :sunglasses:

So, in response to your suggestion, I pressed F4 and in INPUTS under Bus Name I see first Stereo in 1 (with left, right under), then Mono in 1 (here there is a speaker symbol just before ‘Mono in 1’, and then Mono in 2 underneath that. Do you mean I should change that first bus to Mono in 1?

IOW should I simply type in Mono in 1 where it now says Stereo in 1? - the guitar is hooked up to 1 and in the inspector it says Mono in 1 as input

Hello,

it pretty much depends on which interface you use and what you need to connect to it.
It is possible to create as many input busses as you want, even connected to the same physical inputs (or not connected, ready to be assigned depending on the source), and switch between them depending on the needs.

In the attached image you find an example made on the UR44. It includes a Stereo In, named Synth (assigned to the two line inputs on the back, 5 and 6) and four Mono Inputs, assigned to the four Mic/Hi-Z (1 and 2) and Mic/Line inputs (3 and 4). When that amount of inputs is not needed, you can also use presets with your most used configurations (i.e. one mono input, two mono inputs, one stereo input, one stereo plus one mono and so on).

Note that in that example, the mono input ‘Guitar’ is used to feed both Guitar mono tracks and the Stereo Guitar track.

The issue with the sound panned left would occur if using a Stereo Input assigned to input 1 (L) and 2 ® which feeds a stereo track, with the guitar connected to Input 1.
VST_conn_mixer.JPG

My needs are pretty simple. I basically want to create decent enough mp3s of my songs to give to friends and use as starting points with musicians, since right now I’m (enhanced by programs) doing everything. I had worked a little with a different DAW and recently got Cubase. In the other I simply recorded in Mono and then panned after in mixing, and it would pan. I looked at the image you sent and that seems likely more complex beyond my current needs. What’s the simplest set up so that I can record, preferably in mono and then pan it after, more importantly that it is recording through the full pan.

I am working with a simple focusrite, two input card. I use 1 for instruments, 2 for voice mike. In my mixing board
where in your image under routing you have Guitar
Stereo Out

I have Mono 1
Stereo Out

Similar for Vox, though input is Mono 2. I just checked and the voice track disappears if I pan to the right, while the guitar disappears if I pan left. I have generally left both in center, perhaps the guitar just a little panned, and so I never noticed the problem before.

And in mine the little red orange speaker symbol is beside the mono input, not the stereo one above it, if that matters.

Prock and Silhouette, thanks for responding. I went with the response I understood the best.

Hi, let’s make it simple, then.

You just need two mono inputs - delete every buss you have and just create two mono ins.
Rename them after the sources you connected for convenience.

You will end up with the inputs set as in the pic attached.

As discussed, the guitar mono in can be used to feed both mono and stereo tracks - I personally tend to use mono guitar tracks, due to using different IRs that I can pan wherever is needed like I would do with recording captured with mics.
VST_conn_2.JPG

OK. I went to VST Connections while not in a project. I then deleted the three buses: a stereo in and two monos. Then I added two mono buses: which it automatically assigned to inputs 1 and 2. I then opened a new project - a preset with guitar and vocal tracks and effects. And it worked. I recorded a couple of bars and on playback I could pan both ways. So far so good.

I then opened a project I was working on and the VST Connections field opened with the project and it showed the old format, with the stereo input first on the list. The really odd thing was, I tried recording guitar. I saw the event forming, but it had not visible guitar sound. I have seen this before but always if this happens the moment you stop recording, the event disappears, but this time it did not. It just remained there empty.

In any case, is there a way for me to make this work in current projects that are already started?

I thought I would try removing the buses and adding the two monos in this project - perhaps with old projects the computer leaves the old format - but I was asked/warned that this stereo bus was being used and did I really want to delete.

In case it matters I deleted the original buses (busses?) by right clicking on the bus in the VST Connections field.

EDIT…sorry i misunderstood, lets try again…You could try saving the vst connections setup and loading into the new project…then you may also need to confirm the correct input is set for each track.

Not an idiot at all…you just made a wrong assumption as I think I probably did just the same when I first saw this written down…sometimes it takes trying something yourself to make it clear.

Am heading over to read and join the convo now…I still have one reservation that stops me using all stereo tracks so interested to see if it’s been discussed.

how do you save the vst connections set up? And how do you load it? (if these are different processes) What I did now was simply delete, then create the new set up. And then simply closed the VST connect box/field. No save option, though this seemed to make it the default set up. Is that saving? I did that outside of any project. Then when I started a new project, it worked fine. The problem came up when I opened an ongoing project. Do you mean, for example, open an ongoing project, and in that redo the VST connections set up and then save it, for that project and any other ongoing one?