ish. To be fair, the contours of the individual voice parts change, so the effect is different. Harmonically the parallel is still there, but the effect of that parallel motion is changed. It can make a different imho.
These always sound better with monophonic performers, in my experience. With a choir or a string consort, the voice leading (provided it’s a good piece anyway) sounds woven, organic, and often electrifying. When played on an organ or piano, though, those qualities don’t shine through. I admit also that when I play these things at the keyboard, I notice the parallel fifths, I cringe, and my reaction probably comes through in my playing…!
Very nice indeed!
I heartily agree! This is beautiful!
AI will soon take TA positions…
Neither does “Smoke on the Water”…
I realise that I might sound a bit against the mainstream, but I DO expect Dorico to embed soon a reliable 5ths/8ves parallels checking routine. Not everybody despises strict counterpoint as a relic of the past, or a mere tuitional exercise, and I for one write in a densely contrapuntal language rather often, because it is a founding part of my musical style. Since some conscious degree of parallels avoidance is inherent, to every kind of modern multi-part composition, and algorithms can be easily made to work in specific ways by appropriate user settings, I am surprised that no major music notation app does yet offer an AI extension, for that unavoidable but extremely toilsome task which is parallels check in concertato writing. This has not to do with the creative ability of the composer to find ingenious workarounds for contrapuntal problems, which in turn can and have often become interesting lexical elements on their own. I have learnt much from fixing issues in concurrent voice-leading, but this does not imply that I would not enjoy an expert AI assistant, capable of detecting potential mistakes and advancing possible solutions, according to my personal set of musical rules. I suspect that the standing lack of this kind of automated compositional checkers, in music notation apps, has solely to do with the fact that such algorithms are hard to code, in order to work soundly for several voices, and that therefore they probably require a strong allotment of development time and money, for a limited user base of classical composers.
Welcome to the Dorico forum, @Aetherclouds . You’ve certainly decided to start your contribution in a veritable hornets nest of a thread I wonder whether this will get things going again?
Hi @dko22, thanks for your nice welcome greetings! Yes, the subject of the very legitimacy of (some kind of) contrapuntal rules in the XXI century is certainly controversial, and I am aware that the idea of judging/composing music by its expressive/perceptual outcome has many respectable advocates. Still, I believe that, when one occasionally introduces his/her music to real performers, they do really appreciate that added level of finish and formal economy, which only patiently polished voice-leading affords. This is just my standpoint, of course, and that is why I believe that the quality of my compositional time would be significantly improved by parallels checking automation.
As you’ll see from my posts on this subject, I – as something of an anti-academic – don’t really agree with you but of course others do and I always enjoy seeing a wide range of opinions!
James - beautifully done!
Thanks!
I don’t quite understand what you mean by “anti-academic”.
Do you mean that you are against learning the craft of composition?
perhaps you would care to define “the craft of composition”, then I might venture an answer.
I think he means that one can’t forge into the future without understanding what has gone before. Even Schoenberg could write exquisite common practice harmony.
We (the team) are aware of the request to implement some sort of voice leading checking mechanism. Any further discussion on the merit or not of doing so in principle is sort of moot: some people use it, and we therefore consider that like we consider all feature requests. No need to debate composition teaching methods here
no‚ you are the one who brought up “anti-academic”.
I hazarded a guess that it meant “against learning the craft”, since that is basically what academia is, a place to learn the basics and techniques of the craft. I might be misunderstanding your usage of the term “academic”, so it’s up to you to clarify.
But I would be very curious to know how you define “anti-academic” and what that involves/implies.
I had a basic harmony education in the conservatory. When I started writing some music, I discovered very soon, that the rules concerning parallel 5ths and 8th really helped to make a richer harmonic sound.
So for me it was and is no law, but most of the time a way of writing full sounding harmonies, and sometimes a parallel 5th is what it must be in my ears or I see no better alternative.
as my harmony and counterpoint teachers told me: parallel 5ths are contextual. It entirely depends on how they appear in the passage, and how they affect the musicality.
a clumsily-used parallel 5th SOUNDS like an error.
most parallel and direct octaves sound like errors (hideous example: the opening credits of Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, where exactly the reason for generally avoiding parallel and direct octaves exists.)
So a good teacher will teach you how and where it matters or not.
A bad teacher will only insist on rules set in unmovable stone.
So in the end, find good teachers! LOL
I was lucky to have among the best.
I tried to explain my general standpoint on this issue in various posts earlier in the thread if you remember. I don’t see the need to repeat myself unless asked a very specific question. And Lillie has quite correctly suggested that we should stick to the original point – which I also answered in generally being in favour Dorico being able to detect parallel 5th’s and 8th’s if the demand is there, even if I myself hold such rules to be of little practical value.