I have a default template for both my general and parts. I’ve been trying to change the position of the page number to place it at the bottom. However, when I do that, the parts have the number on the wrong place (and viceversa, when I do it is in the right place in the parts, the general has it in the wrong place). I’ve been trying to create new frames so that the information is kept independent between the parts and the general, but to no avail.
Any tips? (By the way, this “coping text frame” and having weird things happen is actually very common with page templates. I hope there’s a big fix coming in the future)
If you want to position page numbers differently in parts vs scores, changing where their text frames are on the corresponding page templates should get you most of the way. (By default, scores and parts use separate page template sets.)
However, you might also need to create a separate paragraph style for one - the Page numbers paragraph style supplied with Dorico is outside-edge aligned. So if you want eg centered page numbers in your parts, I’d recommend creating a separate paragraph style for your part page numbers, that you can set to the appropriate alignment.
The wonky frame position/size error, with the frame disappearing off the bottom page margin, relates to frame constraints and page size. If the constraints are locked on all 4 sides, then you later change the page size for the layout, you can get results like that.
Yes, I think the problem is that I am using the same (user) template for parts and general. It is a lot of work to change now the templates since I have very long performance notes on each part and general (as overrides). It’s not clear what I should do so it takes me the least of time. Should I just unlock the constrains of the page number text frames?
Unlock the top constraint to give the frame a fixed height, but aligned to the bottom margin.
If you do this in a layout where the frames look correct, then it should be fixed when you switch to a layout where it doesn’t.
That said, if you want precise feedback, you’ll need to share a project file as there’s only so much anyone can guess from descriptions and small screenshots.
Well now it works, turns out that I had to unlock the upper handle. I really hope this type of bugs and workarounds in Engrave Mode would be very high priority (there’s many more I’ve encountered and it seems the behavior is totally irrational). They are quite fundamental to the user experience, and it really hinders the Dorico experience. Rather than add or fix more ‘superficial’ things, if workflow bugs like these are not addressed the program wears you down (saying this as a Dorico power user). In my wishlist, certainly I would love a deep re-examination of engrave mode workflow user experience. One can’t write publisher-ready scores with a relatively high degree of pain and confusion along the process (even if you’ve watched and read all the literature about it).
There’s nothing like having a deadline and all your performance notes as text frames in a dorico project !!
(The thing I don’t understand is why this would happen in all the text frames of the parts, which are all overrides. It’s not like I changed the template.)
Looks like tweaking the text frames on my “default template” glitched out the text frames on another page template for my title and performance notes. Again is this behavior known/expected? This is completely bizarre
I do not remember if it was based on anything, but I made overrides so it shouldn’t alter it when I change the template (that’s why I’m deeply confused).
Just for the purpose of knowing what happened:
1 - Made custom page template set (based on Factory ones)
2- Used the same set for parts and general (my bad)
3- “Default” and “First Page” Templates: Solved bar number frame issue using the “unlock top constrain” technique (thanks!)
but then:
4- “Performance Notes” Template: All the text frames are cropped like you see in the picture, for no apparent reason (even when parts have overrides) – I managed to solve it just by overriding it all again
My question is: every-time you “duplicate” a page template to create a new one or copy-paste a text frame, does it mean that overrides or changes will affect all copies of the original frame/template?
Cropped frames on performance notes page - probably due to the same issue of frames having 4 locked constraints, then being used in layouts with wildly different page sizes.
If you created your performance notes design in your score layout (with say A3 page sizes), then switched to the parts (with say A4) then the frames will be proportionally shrunk.
There is a method for reusing page templates in different sets: import page template. So you could transfer your performance notes design from score to parts set, and make any necessary adjustments to the template once, and have the appropriate design used in all parts layouts.
Page templates are in principle designed to be used on layouts with varying page sizes, but when the sizes are significantly different and you’ve either set constraints inappropriately for what you want, or have done very detailed alignment work, some adjustments might be necessary.
Yes, except I didn’t touch at all any “performance” template (both in the general and parts), and it was fine just before making these page number changes. That’s why it feels wrong.
The fact that all steps can only be done in a certain way from the beginning (create, export, import everything and then override) and still need to make adjustments just proves the point of how complicated it is to work on this (what should be simple) formatting.
I still fail to understand why copying frames will cause any text change inside to be mirrored across all of the copies of the original frame. This also happens with templates based on other templates which have frames based on other frames.
Because the frames are linked. There are plenty of situations where this is desired - eg to maintain consistent running headers across multiple page templates that are all variations of “Default”. (This linking behaviour is documented and explained in the manual.)
In theory and ideally, you shouldn’t need to override local pages. Therefore, the workflow can be more flexible if you’ve set things up correctly from the start. I appreciate that this can take some getting used to.
I suggested earlier that you share your project file for more specific advice. You’re welcome to do so if you want someone to take a look at what you’ve done, and suggest alternative ways of achieving your desired end result with a smoother journey. It’s very hard to guess and only talk in hypotheticals.
I’m overriding pages because otherwise I would have to make performance notes for each instrument and I’m setting up the common symbols for all of them and individually adding anything instrument or section-specific to them.
I see, I wasn’t aware of the linking in the documentation, I hope this would be an opt-in feature (with some visual feedback of whether a frame is linked or not, in any case).
I’ve send the file over, let me know if it opens. Many thanks for the help!
Being honest, I think this is a pretty serious flaw in the design of Page Templates. Some frames are linked but there is no feedback for the user to know this, either visually on the page, in Properties, in a side panel, etc. The only way I know to tell for sure is to export the Page Template Set, open it in an editor, and search for everywhere that frameChainDefinitionID occurs. Not very user friendly.
I almost always just create new frames for everything when designing templates, that way I know nothing is accidentally linked. Just get rid of the factory defaults where this isn’t obvious, and start over with your own where you create every frame.
FR: It would be nice if there was a setting for all Text Frames to default to Top and not Center too. It would be great if they could be copy and pasted too (like any DTP software) but NOT linked when you do this.