Pasting/Inserting Middle English yogh (ʒ) IPA symbols (ɔ) etc

Hey all,

I deal a fair amount with middle-english texts and IPA transcriptions.

While it is possible to insert unusual unicode characters such as the yogh (ʒ), the only way I can find to do it is copy it from a reference web page and paste into the lyric popover. As soon as I paste it, it replaces the whole text in the box and moves onto the next lyric placement. I can then go back and add other characters, but it would be useful if there was an easier way to do this!

As a matter of interest, Sibelius displays the same behaviour when pasting symbols in.

Using the Mac version. Any thoughts/tips welcome.

Best
Edd

How about putting in placeholder lyrics, then using the Edit Line of Lyrics dialog to replace with the characters you want?

The pasting thing is intentional (in Sibelius, too) - it’s functionality for pasting a whole block of text into lyrics quickly.

That’s the other option, of course - prepare your text in a Word processor, add hyphens between syllables, then select the whole block, copy, then paste into the Shift-L popover in Dorico.

Certainly an idea- I would be a little worried that I’d miss some symbols when going back through.

I’m wondering if there’s any scope for a unicode entry feature - I know if you have a full size keyboard you can use the numpad for e.g. to input the numeric code with the option key held down - something like that but more universal? Or perhaps some sort of “frequently used” unusual characters? I don’t think Dorico plays particularly well with the OS emoji & symbols viewer but I think that’s a framework issue…

PopChar’s been recommended here before, but I don’t use it so can’t comment on how it works in conjunction with the lyrics popover.

This is a candidate for a Stream Deck. I’ve been doing some Czech lyrics recently, and Stream Deck is a breeze for that sort of thing.

Update on the placeholder characters idea - when you paste a unicode character, regardless of where in the text box, it completely replaces that lyric syllable, so it’s no good. It also annoyingly clears the clipboard so you can’t paste multiple times.

How about an even simpler idea - a modifier key so that when you paste, it doesn’t act as if you’re pasting lots of text? option-command-P for example? option being the key for when you don’t want to escape with “-”…

What’s a stream deck when it’s at home?

Read past the first six words of my first response. Pasting individual characters into the Edit Line of Lyrics dialog (not the Shift-L popover) works fine.

A Stream Deck is a small hardware device - it’s a set of buttons with a display behind it and some software to power it. See Stream Deck | elgato.com. Shameless plug for the Notation Express Dorico profile, which is designed to get you up and running with a Stream Deck (or preferably a Stream Deck XL) nice and quickly.

And how do I find one of those then? (Edit line)

Stream Deck seems a little overkill for what I need… Is there an alternative iPad app for e.g - seems much more worthwhile than an extra piece of hardware…

Select a lyric. Right-click > Lyrics > Edit line of lyrics.

That is pretty handy, thanks :slight_smile:

I maintain my feature request though - would be great to have a more convenient way to handle unicode.

For typing Czech and other languages using extended Latin script, I use the ‘ABC Extended’ keyboard layout. With that, the háček on Dvořák or the ring on Martinů are easy: option-v, r and option-k, u. Show the keyboard to find the keystrokes you need.
Schermafbeelding 2021-02-14 om 18.10.31

If you switch on ‘Show Keyboard and Emoji in menu bar’ (Mac’s General Preferences → Keyboard), you can also invoke the ‘Show Emoji and symbols’ panel from the keyboard menu, and access everything you never knew you wanted from Unicode (Cuneiform anyone?).
Entering special characters from this panel (by double-clicking) works perfectly in the Lyrics popover and elsewhere, as there’s no pasting involved. It’s like an alternative keyboard.
In case of doubt between similar looking glyphs: clicking once shows the name and codepoint number in the upper right corner. Frequently used and favourites are on the upper left. The ‘Unicode’ section at the bottom will literally show you all Unicode characters (provided you have fonts containing them), which is… quite a lot. IPA and Old English are certainly no problem at all.

Hi - many thanks. Yes, I know about the emoji and symbols box - very handy indeed, but doesn’t work with the popover (which disappears as soon as Dorico looses focus). I do in fact use the extended keyboard already…

Best
Edd

Hi Edd, I think I checked that the Emoji+ panel indeed does work with the Lyrics popover, and everywhere in general. I’m curious what could be different in your setup and mine. I’m not at a computer with Dorico now, but I’ll check again tonight to be sure.

Not sure - I’m on a Mac. I can copy and paste from the Emoji panel (see above) but it will not persist while I summon it and try to insert as normal.

I checked: you’re right that if you invoke the Emoji panel during lyrics input, the lyrics popover will disappear, because you access a part of the menu bar that lives outside Dorico. But if you summon the Emoji panel before starting inputting lyrics, it’ll stay put and be available for adding strange characters by double-clicking on them (don’t use copy-paste), while still enabling you to simply type ordinary characters on the keyboard.
At least, that’s on my rusty late-2012 iMac with OSX 10.14.6 (Mojave). I hope Apple didn’t break this utility in later OS’s.

Aha - brill that is very handy to know, thanks very much :smiley: