PG - Wondering why Auto Split Audio Files feature is not part of the Batch Processor?

[uarte]

Hi @PG1 - I’ve been expanding my workflows in WL, and I’ve finally (and happily) discovered the Auto Split Audio Files feature in File → Tools after several years of not realizing what it could really do. Thank you for that feature, it’s especially flexible with the batch capabilities!

(I have been using a somewhat similar workflow in Cubase/Nuendo with Detect Silence, but this WaveLab workflow with Auto Split Audio Files will save me a lot of time when I have tons of files in folders that need processing.)

Anyway, my question: Why is the Auto Split Audio Files feature not part of the Batch Processor?

Perhaps I missed it, so apologies if I’m blind! But I looked and now that I think of it, after all these years, I’ve been focusing on the Batch Processor for repetitive tasks on many files, and didn’t even think that there were other “batch-capable” features elsewhere in WL, and now that I’ve started using Auto Split (which can also process batches of files), I don’t understand why it’s not part of the Batch Processor.

It seems like it would be an intuitive, logical extension to have it available in the Batch area, right? What am I not understanding? Or am I just totally blind and losing my mind at this point?

I’m sure you had a logical reason why they are not together, so I’m hoping you can take a moment and help me understand.

I would also ask that you please consider adding the core algorithm of Auto Split to the Batch options too, so it can be integrated in my batch workflows. I imagine many users would benefit from this too.

Also, second question while we’re on this topic: can you please also take a moment to clarify what the algorithm for Automatic Level Detection does in Auto Split, specifically? How does it determine the threshold? I’m trying to understand the auto mode better as it would be helpful to know how it determines the sensitivity on different material.

Thanks again for this feature and for all your hard work… WL is a like a gift that keeps on giving, with hidden talents I’m still discovering. Looking forward to WL13! Cheers!

[PG1]

@uarte

Why is the Auto Split Audio Files feature not part of the Batch Processor?

For several reasons.

1. it is useful to use on the currently opened file, and also on a clip.
2. The batch processor concept is oriented on “one file in, one file out” (not exactly true because of the possibilities of the file output format, but anyway). But you can see the Auto Split feature has many options: many are not adapted to the batch processor concept.
3. The Auto Split has a kind of built-in batch mode:
   
   

@uarte

can you please also take a moment to clarify what the algorithm for Automatic Level Detection does in Auto Split, specifically?

To be honest, I wrote this code 20 or 25 years ago, and it’s not very fresh in my memory But let’s say the principle is that, during a first pass, WaveLab analyzes the audio to determine the lowest and highest levels.
During the second pass, it uses this information to better find the cut points.

[uarte]

Thank you @PG1 ! I really appreciate your quick and detailed response!

Your explanation makes sense, especially given the evolution of WL over the years.

May I then suggest two (hopefully) small feature requests for WL13? The first one is the most important IMO:

1 - Can you please consider adding the “Cut Head and Tail” algorithm from the Auto Split workflow, especially the “Find and Cut Silence” Mode, to the Batch Processor?

That would be a very useful addition to more complex batch processes! Sometimes we need to trim/cut files based on silence detection. Would save extra steps compared to going through the existing workflows. This would be just the one-to-one algorithm of course, so the full options and one-to-many “splitting” features would remain in the existing workflow.

2 - Can you please consider consolidating all the “Batch oriented” or “Batch capable” features to one unified interface menu or button or area in WL? (Even if this is redundant.) Right now, the Batch Processor stands on its own, and the other “batch capable” features are AFAIK in the Tools menu, and even in there, the “Auto Split Audio Files” menu item is separate from the “Batch Conversion” and “Batch Renaming” features.

Basically, for request #2, my point is that it would be nice if ALL the batch-oriented features could be visible in one menu/button/area, even if it is redundant to other parts of the program. And yes, I definitely now understand the one-to-one and one-to-many differences, and I get the way you currently did it, but when I think of “batches” it would still be helpful to see ALL the batch-oriented features in one intuitive area as well.

Anyway, thanks again, PG! Looking forward to the continued evolution of WL!

[jose7822]

I’ve recently been considering purchasing Wavelab for this exact feature, the Auto Split function, so having all batch processing functions in one place would be beneficial for my workflow (and other’s too).

In my case, I work with thousands of audio files that are meant to be used for language learning website/app. Each file could be a word, a sentence or even a full conversation. For example, the word 家 (House) will have the voice actress record it, plus 10-12 example sentences that go from a simple sentence to full conversations between two or more fictional characters. Now multiple that by at least 1,100 words for the lowest level (there are a total of 5 levels, each with an ever increasing amount of vocabulary).

Given this scenario, it would be nice to be able to cut silences from the beginning and ending of each file, add a specific pre-roll and post-roll amount, AND also use the other batch processing features that Wavelab offer, such as level matching, renaming files, etc. all in one go. I can also see this workflow being beneficial to people working on sample libraries as well, since they’re also dealing with thousands of audio files as well, so manipulating them from the same place would be a time saver.

It sounds like this would be tricky to achieve, but hopefully it is possible .

[uarte]

@jose7822

Given this scenario, it would be nice to be able to cut silences from the beginning and ending of each file, add a specific pre-roll and post-roll amount, AND also use the other batch processing features that Wavelab offer, such as level matching, renaming files, etc. all in one go.

A HUGE YES! I would also love if this was possible all in one go!

[PG1]

@jose7822

it would be nice to be able to cut silences from the beginning and ending of each file, add a specific pre-roll and post-roll amount

Not sure what you mean with pre-roll and post-roll, but that could be the following. And for the batch processor, see…

[jose7822]

Yes, that’s what I meant by pre/post roll.

However, what I would like to be able to do in WaveLab is to batch process using the Auto Spit function and the pre/post roll, as you’ve shown in your screenshot, PLUS also be able to do the functions found in the batch processor in ONE step. AFAIK, this is not currently possible in one step. I’d need to perform at least two steps:

1- Auto Split and pre/post roll; then
2- Apply FX, level matching, renaming files, etc. in the batch processor.

It’s not the end of the world, obviously, but it does make things more streamlined when working on huge projects.

Hope that’s a bit more clear.

[Reaper]

@uarte

#2, my point is that it would be nice if ALL the batch-oriented features could be visible in one menu/button/area, even if it is redundant to other parts of the program.

This was a part of menu till the introduction of ribbon.

[PG1]

Ok, it’s clear.
BTW, that was not its original purpose, but you could use this batch processor plugin to insert silence at the start and end (using silent files).

[uarte]

@Reaper

This was a part of menu till the introduction of ribbon.

Interesting, thank you for sharing that. Hopefully PG will consider doing something similar again for WL13 – either with a menu, button, dropdown, regrouping of some kind, etc.!

[Reaper]

“Auto Split” function has always been different from “Batch Processor” and is also run from the Audio Editor.

In the last step of Auto Split, there is “Fade” “Insert Silence” and “Create a New Batch Processor” option to add split files into the Batch Processor.

Also, there are users who only want to split a few files to thousands of files and not process them or split processed files (from the audio editor or from elsewhere).

And there is role of different types of Markers during the split.

"Auto Split’ and “Batch Processor” are unique in their own ways.

[jose7822]

Thanks for your reply!

As I mentioned before, I understand that what I’m asking for is not a deal breaker, but more of a workflow improvement. It would just make things much simpler to run a multitude of processes in one step rather than it being split into two steps. Again, not the end of the world.

And btw, I’m not suggesting getting rid of the current implementation of Auto Split. Not at all. I’m only asking for it to ALSO be added as a plug-in in the batch editor for those of us who might want to perform several batch processes in one go. That way people who prefer the current implementation, and who are not looking to do any further processing to their files, can keep using the Auto Split function the way it’s been working thus far.

Take care!

[uarte]

@Reaper

"Auto Split’ and “Batch Processor” are unique in their own ways.

Absolutely understood in my case, but what I am personally requesting (now that I understand the reasons that @PG1 did it the way he did, see second post in this thread), is specifically this:

@uarte

1 - Can you please consider adding the “Cut Head and Tail” algorithm from the Auto Split workflow, especially the “Find and Cut Silence” Mode, to the Batch Processor?

I suspect that @jose7822 would also benefit from this feature request, based on what I’m interpreting from his posts here and in a thread in the Cubase forum. I can’t speak for him of course, but it seems like even having just the “Cut Head and Tail → Find and Cut Silence” algorithm inside the Batch Processor would help a lot of use cases, including perhaps his situation. It maintains the one-to-one paradigm of the existing Batch Processor, and takes nothing away from the existing Auto Split workflow.

Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding though.

All the of the existing Auto Split features, including the one-to-many output concept would obviously remain as-is in my request. The Auto-Split workflow is kind of its own beast, I understand that. I’m just suggesting taking one very useful logical algorithm from it and adding it to the Batch Processor too, so it can be sequenced in complex batches in one go.

Hope that makes sense in my case. Again, not trying to interject in the matter for what @jose7822 is talking about, but I can only imagine that my feature request would actually be helpful to his workflow as well.

[uarte]

And BTW, in a perfect fantasy world, and if I’m being a bit greedy , of course I would love ALL the Auto Split functionality, and all other batch-related features, all one-to-many functions, plus some AI content-aware features too (why not?!?) to be beautifully merged with the Batch Processor into one huge insane monster “Ultra Batch Processor”! However, I’m NOT asking for that, as I am confident that would be a massively time-consuming coding task. So I’m personally just asking for a small subset of Auto Split (especially “Cut Head and Tail → Find and Cut Silence”) that is one-to-one, to be added to the Batch Processor.

[jose7822]

Your perfect fantasy world is actually what I would like to have, lol, but your proposed solution is also perfectly fine too . However, I would also include the adding silence feature (what I’ve been calling pre/post roll) of the Auto Split function to the batch processor. That being a separate plug-in for each function, or whatever, I leave up to the developer.

I know PG suggested using the Injector plug-in for this, but that’s just a workaround, and not an elegant solution IMO (especially when the functionality is already implemented elsewhere in the software).

[uarte]

@jose7822

I would also include the adding silence feature

I agree, adding “insert silence” (pre and post) in the batch processor would be nice indeed… and that is better than using the audio injector in my own workflow… especially since I might want different length silences in different projects, and I’d therefore have to create various different length “silent files” to “inject.”

So yes, if @PG1 would hopefully please consider adding both the existing “Cut Head and Tail → Find and Cut Silence” and “Insert Silence” algorithms to the Batch Processor, that would cover 90% of my own needs for this workflow, and streamline a bunch of tasks! PLEASE consider it!

And the rest I can do with the existing Auto Split workflow!

Cheers!

[Reaper]

From what I understand @uarte want to batch strip silence and @jose7822 wants a plugin to insert silence for the Batch Processor.

Insert Silence is already there. Strip Silence PG will have to add. I hope your request is considered.

[uarte]

@Reaper

From what I understand @uarte want to batch strip silence and @jose7822 wants a plugin to insert silence for the Batch Processor.

Yes! Actually I want both.

@Reaper

Insert Silence is already there. Strip Silence PG will have to add. I hope your request is considered.

Indeed! Yes, Insert silence is there, holy smokes! Wow! It’s not immediately intuitive to find, but you are right! Thank you!

So yes, then, the only thing I’m asking for PG at this point is to hopefully add “Cut Head and Tail → Find and Cut Silence”!

Side note: This does highlight how WL has evolved over the years where some functionality is located in corners that might not be so obvious… I’m fine with that since so much functionality is there, but I wouldn’t mind if some of this was streamlined and grouped together a bit more. But I also understand some people will have muscle memory for the current way of doing things… perhaps there is a way to strike a balance of respecting muscle memory but also unifying some of these functions? Anyway, I’m getting ahead of myself.

In any case, thank you for finding that. In fact, I’ll be using it today.

[Reaper]

Also, above plugin removes part of audio file from start and end at user specified length (not find and cut silence).

[jose7822]

That’s good news!!

Then it’s just a matter of adding the other two Auto Split functionalities mentioned earlier.

BTW, though it’s cool to have that, the Trimmer plug-in wouldn’t work in my workflow since I’m dealing with audio files with varying spacings at the beginning and ends.

In any case, thanks for bringing into light that the Silence function does the same thing. Much appreciated!