Hi ALL,
If I am correct, Dorico puts CC 64=127 when the sustain pedal is pushed down(or pressed, sorry for my poor English), and CC 64=0 when lifted. Since Pianoteq is able to react to how deep the sustain pedal is pushed, is there is good way to control this in Dorico? Most of the time a pianist won’t fully press down the sustain pedal all the time to control the tone. So I wonder if it is possible to edit this in the play mode via CC control editor? I think if the default value when pedal is press down can be adjust to other value for example 70 instead of 127 in the play options and we can then easily manually finetune depth of each pedal action in the play mode that would be great. What do you guys think? Any suggestion would be highly appreciated.
Hi Derrek,
Thank you for the messages. I understand about the way to mark/notate the pedal level. I was hoping to understand a better way to fine-tune the the pedal level in the key editor for a better/realistic playback. But I’ll try first by adjusting the pedal line marking to see if, for example, half depressed marking can actually affect the playback and try to find a way to tweak the playback without actually changing the pedal line marking. Thanks!
You should certainly be able to add your own MIDI CC 64 data via the MIDI CC editor in the Key Editor.
Hi Daniel,
Thank you for the idea. I have tried adding CC 64 editor and editing it. Strangely when I added the CC 64 editor it won’t show the CC 64 data value until I added one point with pencil tool. Maybe I am too dumb in using the editor tools, I couldn’t find a good way to generally lower all the 127 value to a lower one say 72. If I use the line tool, it usually causes some weird spikes. Hope experienced users share me some tips to achieve that. Please kindly share me your techniques! I personally am thinking to lower the value of all 127 (pedal fully depressed) to 72 or 96, then fine-tune values of some pedal strokes to alter the tone and resonance. Really wondering what are the possible ways to edit and achieve what I want. Thanks!
Hi All,
I tried to play with the MIDI CC 64 in the key editor. I want to explain a bit more of my difficulties and findings.
Although I placed some pedal marks in the score, when I added the CC 64 editor, initially the value won’t be displayed. Maybe it is not generated yet. But when I added the first control point, it will then show up.
Before (nothing in CC 64 lane):
After adding the first control point (very fine gray lines showed up):
I have to then manually add control points for each pedal depressed/lifted position and it is very tricky to do it precisely without generating some spikes and very time consuming.
I then tried to export a midi file and import it in a DAW like Cubase (I have bought Cubase Pro but am totally a novice, not a DAW guy yet!). And it automatically generates control points on each pedal depressing/lifting. This makes it much much easier to adjust and tweak the value.
Tried to play with some modifications in Cubase for sustain pedal CC 64:
I know some might suggest why not just do it in a DAW? But I really hope to get my project done as much as possible within Dorico from composing/engraving to making good mockups. And I think not all Dorico users have a DAW or want to use a DAW in their workflow. I am really grateful that now the key editors in Dorico 4.3 is so powerful! I just hope that besides the Dynamics/Tempo/Velocity/Pitch Bend, which have great editing toosl now, if Dorico can process other MIDI CCs, like the CC 64, in a similar way like Cubase or Logic with auto generated control points/handles and even some more useful editing tools, that would be super helpful for users to furthur fine-tune them according to their specific needs. And for users that have Pianoteq for their main Piano compositons, it would be awesome as Pianoteq support partial/continueous pedal depth control perfectly to make a very realistic rendering of tone like a real pianist will do for pedaling.
I hope my post explains my thoughts (not a English native speaker). Not sure if it makes sense or not for some users. Just want to express my struggle and little hope. I am really happy to be a Dorico user, although I am still learning and just a hobbyist. And I appreciate all the great support from Dorico team and the wonderful Dorico community.
Cheers!
The thin grey line should show you the prevailing CC level, but it seems to only appear if you have at least one manual automation point. In the Keyboard playing techniques, the different level changes 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 change the height of this line to 32, 64, 95, and 127, respectively.
Fine tuning of pedal lines in Engrave mode does, in fact, result in corresponding changes in playback:
- If you set the Global level, the Ped. glyph will be prefixed by 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, or 3/4, and emitting the corresponding CC instruction.
- If you change the Start level, you can change the starting vertical position of the pedal line, and effectively set a more precise CC instruction.
- If you set the End level to a different value from the Start level, you can create a gradual change.
- At a pedal retake, you can change the level on either side, and choose whether to completely lift the pedal at that point or immediately change to a new level.
- There are some options to change the timing of CC instructions if you press Ctrl+Shift+P and go to Pedal Lines.
If you don’t want to be this prescriptive with the notation, then using the line tool on MIDI CC 64 is the way to go. As for the spikes, I believe this is caused by the pedal line playing technique adding additional CC 64 instructions in between the samples of the automation lines. To avoid this, you can select the pedal line instructions where you have manual automation, and turn on “Suppress Playback” in the properties panel.
Thank you Jester! Super helpful information!
Although I still hope that Dorico in the future can generate the automation points for sustain pedal CC 64 like it does on the Dynamics editor or the way it is handled in the Cubase.
