Playback - wrong techniques

hi there,

Ever so often, playing back a piece for strings, I get playback that doesn’t match the score – for instance, instead of slurred notes I’ll get staccato notes; instead of arco I’ll get pizzicato and vice versa; sometimes I’ll have both pizz and arco at the same time, which seems extra bizarre.

I realize it may be because Dorico changes patches for various string techniques, and it doesn’t change patches unless it encounters a patch change – but that’s a very 1992 behaviour. Is this on the list to improve? Is there anything I can do to improve my playback experiences in the meanwhile?

Thank you!

Are you using the bundled Halion sounds? These do work for the basics like staccato, pizzicato etc. If you are using another library you have to make sure that the explicit Expression Maps for that library are specified. You have to make them up yourself, or maybe import (and modify) existing ones made for Cubase.

I’m just using the basic built-in sounds…

I’ve certainly not come across both pizz. and arco sounding at the same time. If you have a reproducible case, please attach the project here so we can take a look and try to figure out what might be going wrong.

Dorico.png
I’ve run into something similar with the Halion sounds.
If I set up three measures of violin (or viola or cello or double bass)

  • Measure 1 has an “arco” playing technique attached to its first note
  • Measure 2 has a “pizz.” playing technique attached to its first note
  • Measure 3 has an “arco” playing technique attached to its first note

If I start playing this example, stop playback during Measure 2, then restart playback from Measure 1,
Measure 1 is pizzicato while Measure 3 is arco.

If I start playing this example, stop playback during Measure 3, then restart playback from Measure 1,
both Measure 1 and Measure 3 are arco.

Am I setting this up incorrectly to get Measure 1 to be arco no matter where playback stops?

Thank you,
Dave

This is a known, acknowledged bug, which I think will be rectified soon…

Thanks for the quick reply (sorry for the duplication).

I’ve found and fixed a number of bugs that affect playback of arco and pizz, which will be in the next update.

That’s great. I’m a rank beginner at all this business with expression maps, but for practice I’ve been transcribing a simple string orchestra piece, in which Double Bass begins pizz. I’m using the Halion instruments (section rather than solo, though), and Bass always plays back arco. It may be that I’ve missed something elementary in making the right playback happen (I did watch today’s live video, but I still have a lot to absorb), but this gives me hope that it’s a bug that may be fixed. Thanks for all the good work everyone does.

This is an acknowledged bug… there’s another thread about it (with a workaround … in play mode, drag the midi start of the first note a fraction to the right) :slight_smile:

That’s so kind of you to offer that information. Thank you!

Now can you explain it like I’m 5? :blush: I’m looking at the Play window, with its bands of color for each part, and hard as I try, I can’t find that anything is selectable or draggable. Apologies for my ignorance.

In Play mode, for the instrument in question, click on the little > arrow just before it’s name on the left - that’ll expand it out to a piano roll-style editor.
You can then expand those areas if you need to by dragging the area between players down, and also ‘zoom in’ by clicking in the ruler at the top of the page and drag down, or shift click the ruler left/right to move the timeline along.
(Two finger zoom on a trackpad also works.)

OK, baby steps, I see the piano-style editor now and have even increased its resolution per your instructions. I’ve encountered this before, actually, but there never seemed anything I could do with it – and there isn’t now, at least for Double Bass, presumably because the notes playing need to show on the keyboard, but all these windows show only the octave whose lowest note is C4 (that’s what the bottom key reads). Is there a way to change that?

Edited to add: Never mind (for now) – I blundered into dragging the keyboard image up or down to get different registers. And I did drag the start of the first Bass note a bit later. But it still plays as arco.

Hmm… can you check whether you actually have the correct Expression map? Go to Play mode and on the right, under VST Instruments, click the little cogwheel on Halion Sonic SE (the first icon to the left of the name) to open the XM/Channels overview. Make sure that the Bass Midi channel actually has either the HSO Double Bass Solo Combi or HSO Double Basses Combi…

Note that dragging of the notes in the piano roll is much improved in the next update - you actually get some live feedback of the operation.

Thank you for the advice. I have now checked this overview and made sure all the channels are as you say. (I remain bewildered by this whole process; I had originally used the Halion window that you get by clicking the “e” right next to the gear, to set the contents of the channels, and they remain as I set them – yet the listing I just found at the XM/Channels overview you just described was slightly different in each case. And Channel 1 there says Default rather than Orchestral Harp, which is not available in the pull-down list.)

Anyway, I have HSO Double Basses Combi. And it still plays arco while being marked pizz.

That’s odd… The harp says Default because it uses key velocity only, so that’s normal. Any chance you can isolate the problem and upload a file here that exhibits it? (zip it up first)

Sure. Here it is. (Always with the admission that I may well have missed something absolutely elementary about how it should work.)

Excerpt of Folk Song Suite.dorico.zip (1.34 MB)

Well, plays pizz just fine here…
DorBassPizz.gif

Thank you for the information, though I don’t get sound with the .gif you attached. Now I’m more baffled than before! I do appreciate everyone responding, though. This is a most generous forum.