Playing Techniques Expression Map setup

Suppose I have a violin from two different sample libraries and one Expression Map has “col legno” keyswitch E0 and the 2nd Expression Map for the other instrument has “col legno” keyswitch as A#0. Is is possible to setup this up so that when I write “col legno” for each of these instruments that I get “col legno” sounding as each instrument is played?

To put this another way, if you have a string quartet, each with a different keyswitch for “col legno”, how can the Techniques differentiate? “Col Legno” is only there once, and not “Col Legno Violin”, “Col Legno Cello”, etc.

It’s not possible to have one expression map for different instruments, if they each have different keyswitches. The Expression Map defines the relationship between playing techniques and keyswitches, so if you have different libraries or patches with different keyswitches then by definition that’s a separate Expression Map.

Thanks Paul. That is the answer, then. Separate expression maps. Thanks for your help!

@PaulWalmsley hello,
Well, some improvement could be made here in order single expression to trigger multiple Keyswitches to multiple channels.
Here is my suggestion:

In case we need to route a Keyswitch to an Absolute, or Relative Channel we could select it right after the velocity section, as shown on the screenshot above. If we don’t need to route the Keyswitch, then we could just leave the Channel section blank. The same should be valid for Control Changes and Program Changes if they need to be routed, or not. :slight_smile:
This would make the Expression Maps a very flexible tool and will reduce the mapping work a lot.
Even in combination with this suggestion of mine - [FIR] Expression Maps Improvements for Dorico 4, we will be able to easily combine and blend instruments from different libraries in order to get richer and more natural sound out of the VIs. For example Divisi in 4 voices could be performed by 4 different libraries by using only single expression map. Imagine I would like to create custom large orchestral template which includes BBC SO Pro, Orchestral Tools - Berlin Bundle and CineSamples - Orchestra Bundle, which is common practice among the film composers to use multiple libraries within a single template. So, would be more logical and easier if we are able to create single expression maps set per section of instruments, instead of creating separate sets per library.
As you can see, on the screenshot. the Staccato is selected and routed to a three different Keyswitches and three different Channels. In this case we might get simultaneous staccato playback from three different Violin libraries loaded within the same Kontakt instance.
Sometimes we combine libraries just because one library doesn’t have the articulations that another has, or just because we prefer how some articulation are recorded and sampled in one library and others are sampled in another library. Combining techniques from different libraries directly inside Expression Maps would be great without the need to change Note Voices, nor Ports. You could even add Port section next to the Channel!

I hope the team would think about to make such small improvements, which will make the work with VI libraries and the E.Ms. creating process far more easier in Dorico! :slight_smile:

Best regards,

Actually there are a few instances where one expression map can work with more than one instruments. For example, with OT 's Berlin Symphonic Strings, the same expression map works for VL 1, Vl 2, and Vla. as these instruments all have the same playing techniques and keyswitches. However, cello and bass are different and each requires a separate expression map. So that’s the key, if instruments have the same key switches, same articulations and same names, one map will do. Obviously, BSS is an exception.

That’s the rub I think… that it has to be the same instance.

In a single instance of EW - Sure, I can layer different sounds and I can re-map the key switches in each sample to make them same if I need it. I don’t think of those as separate libraries at this point - to me EW and Spitfire are separate libraries. I’m not arguing, just saying that I don’t need to do anything in Dorico to layer those. I suspect Kontact can do something similar as far as remapping if needed?

For truly different libraries, I’d need to be able to route the same staff to multiple instances - as you can with the voices in Dorico today but I’d agree that it feels like an abuse of the feature to do it that way.

The deciding factor for me is that different libraries are going to need different MIDI lane tweaking if you are going to take things this far - and it feels like that is always going to require a different staff. I think? Maybe? Just my thoughts.


gdball hello,
Actually my suggestion would allow to route single technique, which is applied to a single voice, to a multiple instances, not only within the same instance (some players don’t allow multiple patches instrument patches into single instance. The Spitfire Player and, probably, Orchestral Tools - Sine Player allow only single instrument per instance).
For that purpose we need to be able to assign multiple Ports and Channels for single technique. This will allow to easily create complex multi-library templates, and if we would like to make them play simultaneously.
The multiple ports and channels idea should also allows the legato playback of Double stops (intervals which parts of the very same voice), which isn’t possible with most of the libraries, because the legato patches are mostly monophonic. If we are able to load two patches within the same Kontakt, or Play instance, or to load two instances of BBC SO Pro Violins (here two different ports will be required) and route the Legato technique to two Channels and (or) Ports, Dorico will be able to perform those legato Double stops normally.

Different staffs won’t be needed. The CC Automation lanes work per voice principle, so for Divis, or different library per instrument (e.g. 4 different Horns), we could control these things in Play Mode.
In case we are having multiple libraries playing notes on the same voice, we could balance them by the volume controls provided in their interfaces.
Another improvement could be done here!!! :slight_smile: The Dynamic settings for Main and Secondary dynamics could be made to work per assigned Keyswitch/PC/CC - Port - Channel.
For example if we have four different KS - Port - Channel maps for e.g.: Staccato technique, then we should be able to edit the Dynamic settings per every single mapping separately. There could be a “Tick” in case we would like the same dymanic settings to be valid for all mappings (if we are using multiple patches, or instances of the same library)

I hope the team would think about such game changing improvement of the Expression Maps! :slight_smile:

Best wishes,

I think you mixed together two cases here - when there is a single voice, and when there are multiple voices. (Or possibly I confused them. :slight_smile: )

What I am saying is that if it were possible for a single voice to use two different libraries, that most likely any dynamics tweaking you did (as one example) would need to be different for the two different libraries. If you have just one voice… you only have one lane which is shared.

I probably should have explained better what I was thinking, but I feel that using (or miss-using?) multiple voices is a long way from easily creating complex multi-library templates. (My emphasis) and I feel like that was not their intention,

The more I think about it, the ultimate reason for me is that Dorico is not a full DAW. I need each of them to export separately and easily - as player staves do - so that when it gets to the DAW I can do things with them that would otherwise be problematic in Dorico.

If I need a big layered sound, I am probably not going to get it with a single track… Yes I can split an instance into different tracks in the Dorico mixer, add their own inserts etc… But I can’t export them separately - unless I mute and export multiple times, rename files, etc. I can’t do things like pan the sends or have multiple sends…

I’m eagerly waiting the DAW/Dorico integration. Or then again maybe not. The biggest limitation may be that I need my processing power back - Unless I want to start a “Go Fund Me Page” for an HP gen 10 blade, I need the instruments to be “printed” and the samples unloaded before I start loading a Fairchild emulation, several convo reverbs, etc.

Again, all just me.