popup position / slash notation ...

I have to write a lot of scores these days.
Some practical issues probably due to my lack of knowledge of Dorico and maybe there are already topics for that:

  1. the position of the pop-up window is sometimes strange:
    for example:
  • I select 32 bars -> then Shift R to enter ‘slash’, but the pop-up window appears not at the end of the 32 bars which I see on my screen, but at the beginning of the 32 bars which I don’t see, so I don’t know if the pop-up is really there.
  • or I choose a larger part and I want to transpose it to another key. Same problem: the pop-up appears at the beginning of the selection and not at the end which I see on my screen. So again I can’t see the pop-up.
  1. slash notation: it happens very often that I delete slash notation and i get blank bars in which I can’t enter anything. I first have to copy - paste notes from bars before, delete the notes and then I see rests again in the former slashes bars and I can enter notes again.

  2. When I/m in 4/4 and I make slashes for the whole bar and then afterwards I want to correct that and enter notes after 2 beats, I cut my slashes after 2 beats with the scissors tool but it’s impossible to enter notes on beat 3. I first have to delete the whole bar, which leads me to the problem which I described in point 2)…so just to enter something on beat 3 takes a lot of time.

  3. when I want to copy - paste passages with at the beginning a tied note from the previous bar, I first have to un-tie, copy-paste, go back to the copied part, tie again…there is no other way I guess?

Sorry, these are some of the things which happened the last days. I’m pretty sure that the Dorico guys know all that already. So, I’m not sure if my topic makes sense… :question:

  1. You have two options: either make your selection backwards (click bar 32 first, then scroll back and Shift+Select bar 1), or put up with the fact you can’t see the popover. The fact that the popover is off screen doesn’t stop you from typing into it and hitting Enter.

  2. The logical explanation for this is that you’ve used Remove Rests before adding the slashes, or you’ve used the Starts/Ends voice properties - both of which are usually unnecessary. If this is the case, rather than copying and pasting notes from somewhere else, locate the last note or rest before the (entirely) empty bars, select that note or rest, and turn off the “Ends Voice” property. If that doesn’t work, locate the first note/rest after the entirely empty bars, select it, and turn off the “Starts Voice” property.

  3. See 2.

  4. There’s no better way, though it might sometimes be quicker to put up with a gap being left and then manually filling it with a note.

Thanx Leo for the explanations.

The fact that I can’t see the pop-over is strange for me. I click shift & whatever and I’m so used that I see a popover where I am (from other programs) that I’m really confused and not sure if there is a pop-over anywhere in the score. Of course I can just trust Dorico or scroll back - what I say is: I think it would be nicer if the pop-over opens where you just are with your selection/on the screen.

Another thing which is strange to me is a feeled ‘randomness’ how Dorico treets stems.
Before octaving:
Bildschirmfoto 2019-07-22 um 12.02.36.png
After octaving - some stems of the B are up, some not ???
Bildschirmfoto 2019-07-22 um 12.02.51.png

I think Dorico’s consistent in its design - it always puts the popover where the thing starts, whether that thing is a lyric, a key signature, a clef, etc. You could always invoke the popover where you want the slashes to start, then extend the slash region, rather than making the selection first.

As to stems, that’s not random at all. It’s down to these settings:

Presumably in the beat before your screenshot, there is a note that has its stem pointing down. Dorico is then continuing the trend until it reaches a note that must have its stem pointing up. It then continues that trend until it reaches a rest, after which it returns to the default (which is down). You have control over this function. Change it if you don’t like it :wink:

Interesting. Learned a lot again. Thanx a lot.

Hey Leo, some questions, after I checked also the Dorico video about the shlashes again:

How do I avoid to ‘remove rests before adding slashes’? I didn’t see an option in engraving rules.
What do you mean with ‘starts/ends properties’?..I didn’t do anything in the properties panel. I chose a region -> shift R - ‘slash’ ----- that’s all. No clicks in the properties panel, no ‘remove rests before adding slashes’…and still I get blank bars when removing slashes. And still I can’t cut the slahes after 2 beats and enter a note on the 3rd beat…hmmmmm :question:

Have you got the layout option set to not show bar Rests in empty bars? It’s the only other reason I can think of for this. That said, I’m not in front of Dorico right now and I can’t remember the last time I deleted a slash region, so I might be misremembering.

Nope…‘Show Bar Rests in Empty Bars’ is enabled :open_mouth:

I’ve just checked. The expected behaviour for removing slashes is this:

There must be something happening that means that the End Voice property is being applied to the note/rest immediately before the slash region, and the Start Voice property is being applied to the note/rest after the slash region, but I don’t know what it is if it’s not you!

…but no, you can’t use a slash region for part of a bar and then enter notes for the rest of that bar. That is to be expected. Use individual slash notes if you only need them for half a bar.

About the blank bars after deleting slash notation: I’d like to send you a demo tomorrow to show it to you Leo…

As for the ‘half-bar-slashes’: sometimes I make 32 bars slashes in a jazz-piano-score (with just chords written). Then I recognize: oh I need an upbeat. I have to cut the slashes of the last bar, delete the slashes, enter the upbeat and write slashes again for the 2 or 3 beats before the upbeat - complicated workflow.
The strange thing: If I cut the slahes after 2 beats and delete 2 beats with slashes, I can see 2 beats with slahes and a 2 beats-rest, but it’s impossible to enter a note into the 2 beats-rest :neutral_face:

And for the ties in Dorico, I’m still not convinced about the way Dorico handles ties.
Example: I’m making my final layout. I’m in engrave mode. I want to merge 4 bars into a system, but oh, the first note is a tied note with the bar before. I have to go into write mode, un-tie the notes, back to engrave mode, merge the bars, back to write mode and tie the notes again and back to engrave mode to go on with my layout corrections---- puuuhhh…I really don’t see the adavantage in the system how Dorico uses ties. In Sibelius you can split slurs AND ties wherever you want - that’s so much easier. And that’s just 1 example for the tie problem. I often run into similar situations where I have to un-tie and tie again.

In your example, select the barline, not the note. Easy to make that into a system.

I’m afraid you’re using “make into system” in an unexpected way. Just select the first note you want on the System, and Ctrl/Cmd-select the last barline you want on the System, then hit the Make Into System Button.

Yes, I do that sometimes. But sometimes I just forget, click on the tied note (and forget that it takes the note before, too) and get strange results or sometimes I need 7 attemps to catch the barline. Or I have to zoom in 5 times so that I can catch the barline.
Do you like the way how ties work in Dorico Dan? I just don’t get familiar with it…what is the advantage of this system?
Another example: I have a long tied note over 7-8 bars in the strings, I want to change the last bar, I have to un-tie everything (this is easy) and then tie every note again. Why can’t one cut ties wherever it is needed? Or is it just me who is the problem,…I guess so :smiley:

You CAN cut ties wherever needed. Set the caret anywhere you like and hit U. You can even split single notes into two notes with U, wherever you want.

Oh, and the advantages are primarily that you can put barlines in different places, or change the time signature, or move the note within a bar, and Dorico automatically respells it rhythmically. Sibelius can’t do that (or at least it can’t do it well).

I absolutely agree that these functions are slow if you try and use Dorico as if it were Sibelius, but it’s not Sibelius, and it has its own quick ways of doing things.

I do, yes. 95% of the time, I prefer ties to behave like they do. There are times I wish it were different… but then the other 95%, I’d wish it back again!

The only scenario that had routinely bothered me was when multiple instruments had a cresc or decresc, and some of them were coming out of a tie.

But I found a great solution is to set key commands for Duplicate Above (Ctrl-Shift-D) and Duplicate Below (Ctrl-Alt-D).

Here’s an example of what I mean, and how I now get around it using Duplicate Below:

You can always create items at any point in a chain of ties by showing the caret at the position where you want the item to begin. You almost never need to actually cut the tie to do something.

really? i just checked (version 2.2.20). if i have tied half notes and select those notes (by clicking any note in the tie) and choose the staccato articulation (or staccatissimo or staccato-tenuto) from those articulations available in the left-hand panel, the chosen articulation is placed on the last note of the tie. if i choose the any of the other available markings, they’re placed on the first note of the tie.

if instead of selecting the tie i place the caret (by invoking shift-N) over the first note of tied half-notes (as suggested) and choose any of those articulations… nothing happens.

however, if i break the tie (scissors tool) and place the articulation on the desired note and re-create the tie… then i get the desired result.

or am i missing something fundamental?

-t

Daniel is referring to playing techniques (like a downbow) and dynamic marks. This technique doesn’t apply to articulations, AFAIK.

The reason, I believe, is that articulations are “properties” of a note, rather than elements that can be placed freely in the score. Fingerings would work the same way.

i guess i’m wondering why any of this is sensible (see screen shot):
Screen Shot 2019-07-22 at 8.46.44 PM.png
i can place ‘playing techniques’ any where i want using the ‘caret’ placement technique but not articulations. how is ‘buzz pizzicato’ not an articulation in some sense of the word?

i’m confused by a lack of consistency here…

Some playing techniques can happen during any part of a note. A string player might change bow direction midway through a whole note, for example. Of course, some PT must belong to a note. But not all. Hence the flexibility for that category of marking.

By contrast, articulations never make sense when removed from an explicit note.

That’s just my assumption for the reasoning.