Seems like the strings players in this video use detache (with a lot of bow pressure!) and since Note Performer doesn’t have that, there’s not much it can do except try to fake it with plain Jane sustain.
What complete and utter nonsense! With detache bowing, the bow never leaves the string! All are playing spiccato.
@adrien is absolutely right about the absence of attack. Particularly at the start of slurs. If anyone can provide clues as to how to manage this, I’d be eternally grateful…
Considering purchasing NP myself but I write jazz sometimes so I’m not sure what I’d use for Jazz (since phrasing isn’t correct for Jazz in NP).
Thanks for your honest reply! I agree that bow changes are so far harder to emulate automatically with most sample libraries and will require some more work to get there.
Being so iconic, the performance praxis for this particular piece is that, at many places, lines are effectively played marcato even though this is not explicitly demanded in the score (or as MiloDC nicely put it “every conductor and her dog would …”). In other words this score is not always played as written, and this is surely something that is hard to capture automatically by an Expression Map (in particular taking into account that Dorico gives us so far generous set of five choices 
). Being more on the harsh side and having its own internal processing independent of Dorico’s current limitations, Note Performer clearly has advantages here and its phrasing is unmatched.
So I agree, we are not there, yet, as far as the automatic playback with full-fledged sample libraries is concerned 
, and we will need more conditions in Expression Maps in Dorico 4 to improve this. A very useful condition in this regard would be whether a note is a starting note of a group of notes (e.g. after a rest, …), or is on a particular beat, since these points are generally where bow changes are performed and a harder attack is required. As Janus pointed out, this is particularly important for legato lines: in most sample libraries the starting note is automatically chosen as a standard sustained note (with a soft attack) while actually it should be varied like any non-slurred note as the note length gets short and/or if it is at a special position.
Thanks for posting your version, David. The Special Edition is generally lacking the quiet velocity layer and so everything is pushed upwards in dynamics making the sound harder and giving it more attack. Similarly it is lacking the long detache version and the remaining short detache is likewise harder which helps for this particular score (but is disadvantageous for others).
The full version of the VSL generally contains 5 different sampled note lengths: sustained, long portato / sustained fast attack, long detache, short detache and staccato / spiccato. Dorico gives us so far exactly 5 different ranges and we cannot even specify where these ranges start or end. So if we want to include all these different sampled versions in the automatic playback, which is advantageous for slower scores, there is nearly no choice anymore to improve things at present. Taking into account that Dorico does so far not even adapt these note-length choices based on the tempo (remember our discussion in the other thread), we had to optimize our map for intermediate tempos (so that it also plays slow adagios acceptably). Correspondingly, there are inevitably scores where this does not work as well anymore with the current restrictions in Dorico. Taking into account that in contrast to me you even lowered the tempo, it might not be too surprising (… or even disappointing 
) that our map (at present out of necessity being optimized for lower tempi) does not work perfectly for the original version of the score so far.
So the current map is a compromise that can work pretty well for certain scores and that makes sure that things don’t fail completely in other cases (I think there is at least a coherent sound without too serious glitches). The map gives the user access to the entire VSL via over 1000 switches and unprecedented continuous control over the sound, but inherently Dorico so far merely allows us to use around a dozen of them for the automatic playback. Correspondingly, there is obviously a lot of room (and having all these different versions, also a lot of potential) for improving the automatic playback. That’s why it would be important that there are more than 5 of these ranges and maybe even more importantly that we can specify where they start and end, and that all this is tempo-dependent (… not to mention the other conditions discussed before). Hopefully it won’t be long anymore until we get the means to do this .
I agree with virtually everything here. It’s not an ideal piece for showing off your art! I know the full range of the patches available in the VI and synchronized (as opposed to synchron) libraries from the solo strings primarily though there are similar ideas for the orchestral strings collections. As has been made clear by Daniel from this thread Multiple Playback Techniques in Ex Map Entries - Label and Sort by Selection Order not Alpha - #7 by ebrooks no new features are to be expected in the Expression Maps for the initial release of 4 but I suspect and hope they won’t be too far off. We’re both looking for similar things (despite approaching the programming in rather different ways) and indeed I posted around 18 months ago about the sort of things I would like to see added to the Expression Maps!
Thanks a lot for pointing me to this thread, I completely missed this statement. Oh, this is a pity 
. But since the playback is likely not of high priority for most Dorico users, it could be expected that other features are more important for the initial release. Let’s hope your very useful suggestions for extensions to the Expression Maps (that I wholeheartedly second) make it to 4.x then. In this case we will have some more time to extend the wishlist …
detache just means detached, and it’s the default bow style if nothing else is marked (e.g. no legato or staccato or slurs etc).
Every time the bow goes from 0 to some velocity with any normal pressure, there are high frequency artefacts. You have to try really hard to avoid these in playing, if you wanted to (e.g. flautando, sul tasto etc etc). So, when these HF artefacts are missing, it’s very audible to someone who is used to the sound of a violin. Bow changes are an example of this also, as you can’t change direction without going via 0 velocity. Even rapid changes in bow speed will cause artefacts.
Marcato is different again, the initial bow pressure is increased, to grab the string, and when the bow is moved you get the overcoming of bow friction, and an increased crunch / attack. I’m not proposing making detache into marcato, that’s a higher level of attack.
I’m hearing an emphasis about 1/4s into the longer notes. Like they start at one dynamic, and then get an oomph.
This is an exaggeration of what I mean. Please forgive the dodgy intonation.
Once you hear it, you can’t un-hear it. Pretty much every sample library I’ve tried does this, except NP.
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A very short extract from Eine Kleine. I’ve used BBCSO CORE with Long Marcato Attack, it seem to me quite similar… as usual doric adds additional seconds without music … 
Make sure there’s no pre-roll in the playback options. I think I have had to add some in order to get the first notes played with BBCSO.
Not as fancy as Mozart, but some abundance of non-totally-regular sounds in this Webern rendered by NotePerformer:
Paolo
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That’s nice! Webern was the strictest when it came to serialize (compared to Schoenberg or Berg- just my opinion😉), but much of his music- like the example you show here- is quite poignant. Thanks for sharing.
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I meant serialism- missed the autocorrect
One easy way to make NP sound a LOT better is to use a better reverb.
The built-in one that defaults to 50 is kinda…poopy.
Turn it down to zero, and sent each NP channel to the Dorico Reverb effect. I like the “LA Scoring Stage” preset for most general purposes… it has a good bit of room ambience still, but doesn’t blur everything.
Here’s a quick test with an excerpt I had handy
NP Reverb
Dorico Reverb (Reverberence, LA Scoring Stage preset)
Interesting; but I think the NP reverb example was better. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder, I guess. Thanks for suggesting an option I didn’t know about, though.
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I don’t know if I’m just so used to it, but I also like the noteperformer reverb more in this case. But I’ve heard that you can get good results also with the MIR reverb and noteperformer.
in Dorico the LA Scoring stage is activated by default in every new score you create as can be seen in the mixer. The only question is whether it was switched off for the NP Reverb version.
Just bought Noteperformer … it’s awesome! Only 1 gb but the yield is actually remarkable. How often is it updated? Thanks for the replies
I agree. I use LX480 all the time — my examples at the start of the thread use it for all the excerpts I have posted. Medium hall. This Lexicon copy is really worth it.