Pre-fader metering

So we have just 3 options for metering in Cubase 10.5 Pro which I am pasting below from the online manual. Where is the PRE-FADER option? Where the level showing woudl reflect what is set on PRE GAIN.

Meter Position - Input
If this option is activated, the meters show input levels for all audio channels and input/output channels. The input meters are post input gain.

Meter Position - Post-Fader
If this option is activated, the meters show post-fader levels.

Meter Position - Post-Panner
If this option is activated, the meters show post-fader levels and also reflect pan settings.


Input is perfectly fine for recording purposes. What are you looking for with the Pre-fader meters ?

PS: im on 11 Pro

I want to see the meter in mixconsole react when I reduce the PRE GAIN of channel strip which only seems to happen when choosing POST FADER as the option. This seems like backward behaviour? Shouldn’t there be a PRE FADER option which would behave this way?

You could load Supervision into an Insert Slot.

Supervision is not available in Cubase 10.5 Pro.

Sorry I looked up to verify it was Pro but not the number. Upgrade?

I’m sure you can find any number of free meters available in the KVR plug-in database

I guess you´re gain staging some soft synths ? that would be the wrong way if that´s the case. Use synth internal volume knobs. (Ignore this comment if is not what you´re doing).
Other case scenario would be Gain staging some pre recorded audio material. I use the event volume for that. Works perfect and is pre everything on the signal chain.

DI guitars mainly. I don’t understand why the option for PRE FADER is not there and why it would not reflect the actual INPUT going into the channel itself, prior to any other. And yes it is entirely related to gain staging. Mainly guitars but yes soft synths. I do use the internal volume of Kontakt for that. I do not generally use event volume or “clip gain” but prefer to use the PRE in the channel strip for audio.

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Check this. i dont know if its updated to latest versions of Cubase but i assume they havent changed too much

I wouldn’t do that, you could easily clip the AD converter when recording and see normal levels on the meter.
Personally I prefer to normalize levels instead, that gives me a better sense of levels as shown on the audio tracks waveform.

I see. I had a bad habit of recording too hot so I am doing what I can to correct that behaviour. Soft synths are easy because they live in the box and I can adjust their output within Kontakt or u-he , etc.

It’s the analog instruments going in like guitars that I’m trying to develop a system with. I have found using the pre gain of channel setting and knocking off 4-5dB (depending on guitar) will help get me where I shoud be which is around -14 to -12dbFS average with peaks no more than -6dbFS. I just want to see the METER reflect the true gain level of the signal and again am just surprised that cubase does not have an actual “PRE FADER” meter setting.

FWIW, I have a rather empirical way of approaching this. Actually, I use less and less the gain control…

  • For VSTis, don’t exactly know why, but using this knob alters the level output of an instrument track, while the output level of the used VSTi doesn’t change in its UI meters. This obviously shows that a given VSTi is inserted, in an instrument track signal flow, at a pre-gain stage. From which, and to avoid any hassle, I set all instrument tracks gain to 0 and adjust only with the faders (or eventually with the VSTi output setting, if really needed) : no pre-fader meters necessary, with this way of doing.
  • For audio inputs, things are different : I always use Input channels to check the levels of audio signals coming in Cubase. But if there is a problem, I adjust, as much as I can, these levels with the hardware input gain of TotalMix strips (the RME interface control application) : this is the stage where AD converters clipping can occurs. From which, same thing as for VSTis : in Cubase, I set both the input channels and audio track gain knob to 0 and eventually adjust with Cubase input channel fader if really needed (say, using a SM57 to record an acoustic guitar with a six feet distance - almost never happens…) IOW, as much as I can, I control the incoming audio signals levels before they hit Cubase.

This to say that I’m not sure that pre-fader meter is truely necessary (Cubase uses a 32 or 64 floating point format to internally deal with hot audio signals levels). What is important, IMO and unless I have it all wrong, is the level of what comes out from a given audio/instrument track and the fader is made for this. At least, and with this way of doing I never have true level issues (beside Larsen with condenser mics, but it’s another subject).

I also use RME and totalmix and digicheck. U r not adjusting anything at all with any of the totalmix faders in terms of signal sent to Cubase. Totalmix faders do not in anyway adjust the input levels, only what you hear.

Correct. That adjustment needs to be made on whatever is feeding the RME’s input in conjunction with your Fireface Settings

Read again : I’ve never talked about TotalMix faders. I was evoking the Input gain knob in the channel settings, the ones available by clicking on the wrench icon…

I’ve had several conversations with other Cubase users ever since I came to Cubase after 20yrs. I’ve been using different DAWs over the years and the last main 3 I’ve used is Pro Tools, Logic and Studio One and they all have Pre-Fader metering. Even my small analog mixing console has it.
I relied on it and used it constantly and I was very surprised Cubase didn’t have it as it’s so up to date and feature rich, even with new metering options but no Pre-Fader.
I’ve been shown how other people work etc but it’s just not the same. It seems many other users haven’t used it before so they don’t miss it and then say it’s unnecessary. This concerns me as there may not be a big enough demand for this feature and they may never add it.
I really hope they do. :pray:t4:

If you setup in Audio connections all your inputs, you´ll be able to see them all in the mixer. Those are your true input levels. You can see them in there and not in the Audio channels. Even if you change the volume on the actual Audio track that is recording you still have the real fader meter on those input, red faders, on the left side of the mixer.

An if you set to Input the meters will represent the raw input signal coming to Cubase, you can move fader that it wont affect the metering!