Preserve Notes After Tie

Dorico
#1

I know this has been discussed before, but I can’t figure it out. Hopefully I’m just missing something obvious with Lock / Force Duration. Here’s my situation . . .

In 4/4 time I want to have a whole note in a measure, but it should gliss up to another note in the next measure starting on the last 8th note beat of the measure- so I would like to notate this as a half note tied to a dotted quarter tied to the 8th - and then gliss from that last 8th note to the next measure.

I’ve tried numerous combinations of Force and/or Lock duration, but nothing seems to work - Dorico is forcing the whole note.

Just for example, I’m attaching two gifs here. In the first, I’ve set up everything except the last tie to the 8th note.

Before Tie.png
Before Tie.png1681×492 33.2 KB

But after I do the tie, you can see in the second gif that I now have a whole note - and - I’ve lost my gliss.
After Tie.png
After Tie.png1717×429 23.8 KB

What am I doing wrong?

#2

Make the final eighth a different voice tied to the earlier notes.

gliss.png

#3

Hey Derrek -

Thanks. That works.

That said - and not to look a gift horse in the mouth :slight_smile: - but this “solution” strikers me as a kludge/trick, plus you have to set up the second voice & hide the rests.

I would think that there’s a solution that falls naturally out of the application itself - something with Force or Lock Duration or something with the properties. Just for example, with Force Duration I can do this:

Force Duration.png
Force Duration.png1021×204 16 KB

I just can’t convert this into the desired result.

#4

Dear eheilner,

Out of curiosity, I tried this and it works fine without using a 2nd voice. (No work-arounds required). I am assuming you are doing it differently than me. Here is how I did it in my example:

Get in note entry mode and enable Force Duration by typing o

  1. In the first measure, type 8f [enters a whole note F]
  2. type t [to set up tie to next note]
  3. type 7f [enters a half note F in the next measure tied to previous note]
  4. type t [continues the tie function]
  5. type 6.f [enters dotted quarter note F tied to previous note]
  6. type t [continues the tie function]
  7. type 5f [enters an eighth note F tied to previous note]
  8. type 8g [enters a G whole note in the next measure]
  9. press Enter key [stops note entry mode]
  10. click on the Glissando icon once in the Ornaments panel and click on the eighth note F to put in the gliss.

The attachments show before and after the gliss is input.

The reason it didn’t work for you is that you had all notes tied except for the eighth note, so when you tied that last note to the previously tied string of notes, Dorico is not keeping the forced duration because you are not entering a note at this point (which is required for a “forced duration”). It’s logical when you think about it.
More info:
Force Durations and Ties have to be done in a certain way to achieve desired results. If you wish to have Dorico respect the forced durations, make sure all forced-duration notes you desire to be tied are selected before invoking the tie, or, alternatively, hit T after each forced duration note is entered. If you combine forced duration notes with non-forced duration notes or tie several notes sequentially one at a time after-the-fact, Dorico may re-write note values to align with it’s knowledge and/or parameters set by the user regarding beaming, time signatures, etc. It sounds confusing, but the foolproof way is:

  1. Select all notes you wish to tie (which, presumably were input with forced, desired durations), then hit T. (There should be no notes tied before you type T!)
    or
  2. Re-write all notes of a tie with forced duration on and tie as you go, hitting T after each note entry.
    before gliss.png
    after gliss.png
#5

musicmaven -

Thanks, that was it! I was not entering all the original notes with Force Duration. I also was not aware that you could start a Tie before you enter the following note(s) - so that’s nice to know also.

Meanwhile, no good deed goes unpunished - your solution opens up a follow up question. . .

Is there any way of telling after the fact that a note has been entered using Force Duration - say via a signpost or note coloring? AFAIKT there is no such thing.

So I could see a situation where you have a very large multi-part score and you enter, say, two half notes with Force Duration, and then several weeks later decide to tie them and be surprised that you did not get a whole note. After your initial confusion you might (or might not) remember “Of yeah, I entered those with Force Duration the other week”.

Of course you can always re-enter the notes, but it would be nice if there would some mechanism to know which notes have Force Duration and have the ability to “Un-force” them. Or perhaps there is such a mechanism and I’m just not seeing it?

#6

There isn’t such a mechanism, and like you, I wish there was!

#7

Re: Post #5 by eheilner:

“…and be surprised that you did not get a whole note.”

That would depend…

Remember that Force Duration is derived only at the moment of the creation of the note. Once you add a tie, or change the duration using shift-alt right arrow or shift-alt left arrow, Dorico will calculate things and may or may not re-write note durations based on user-selected choices of beaming, etc. in Engraving Options, and it’s own algorithm of best notational practices.

I agree it would be nice to have a signpost or something showing forced durations!