Problem combining Percussion and expression maps

Hi everyone,

Is it possible that Dorico cannot handle combined playing techniques when using Percussion and expression maps at the same time?

I would really be grateful if someone could tell me if I’m doing something wrong or if it is just not possible!

Here’s a simplified version of my setup:
I have a cymbal with different mallets (VSL). Each mallet is in a slot selected by program changes and each mallet uses the same pattern : rim hits in the C3 octave, center hits in the C4 and top hits in C5.

  1. Percussion playing technique:
    Rim under the line, Center on the line, top over the line

  2. Percussion maps:
    E3 rim
    Bb3 rim + tremolo
    E4 natural
    Bb4 tremolo
    E5 top
    Bb5 top + tremolo

Up to there everything works as expected. Then I add the following expression map:

  1. Expression map: (base or add-ons, same result)
    Natural: program change 0
    Soft mallets : program change 1
    Hard mallets: program change 2

With this, Dorico will select the right mallets and will play the right sound as long as it correspond to a single playing technique, but not with combined playing techniques. So “rim, natural, tremolo, top” will trigger properly but not " rim + tremolo " or “top + tremolo”.

Anyone knows why?

A lot of thanks!

Yes, right now Dorico doesn’t handle the use of expression maps to modify the percussion map. It’s something we would like to improve in future, one way or another, since there are certainly situations like this one where controller changes or program changes are required to access specific sounds.

Can you be more specific about your VSL product? I use the old percussion library and sticks are switched by CC1, not Program Change. I’ll share maps if we’re on the same page…

VSL is not a Dorico product. Vienne Symphonic Ensemble and other VSL sounds are products of Vienna Symphonic Library.

Percussion and Expression Maps already do work together. I use them often and they work fine except for playing techniques with multi entries.

Yes I know that…

I have both vi and synchron. Thanks for the offer for the xmaps but my setup is quite complicated combining vsl with other libraries and I don’t use vsl’s factory presets. So unless we 're bound by a strange quantic connection, there’s no way your maps would corresponded to my setup !
Anyway I already have maps for everything, I was just trying to clean up and systematize my setup.
My presets use pc to trigger mallets but it wouldn’t change anything to the problem if they use cc or ks instead . Thanks!

It’s not a supported configuration to use expression maps and percussion maps together. Although we will endeavour not to break anything that currently works, the current behaviour is more or less undefined as it wasn’t part of our original scope.

1 Like

I’ve messed up. My second reply to Derek was intended for you. S


Must admit I didn’t realize they were supposed to be either/or. In my XP maps I have only keyswitches for changing sticks/mallets, with the rest handled by the percussion map. Seems to work most of the time :slight_smile:

Do you have multiple playing techniques entries in your perc maps?

Yes, when available.

I should mention that I created custom glyphs and text playing techniques for the variety of sticks & mallets etc. available – thumb roll for tambourine, “tremolante” to get unmeasured tremolos from marimba/vibe & so on.

Same here. I should precise that multi-entries playing technique work absolutely fine in perc or x-maps when used on their own. It’s only when combining both that the problem pops up.
So do you have any situation where you’ve managed it? Something like :
Percussion map : center + tremolo AND Expression map : soft mallet
Let me know if you have. I would be very interested to see your functioning xmap.

For marimba & vibe, I don’t think I use a percussion map at all. Just the xp map. And if I was using the xp map for trems, then I wouldn’t also use the percussion map for the same thing.

1 Like