Problem w/Deleting measure 1 in midi

Cubase
41

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote
I reviewed earlier posts, and my brain finally clicked. The click brought me to understand that to get the name and the avatar inside the quote requires that first I need to select the text that I want to quote and that quite symbol appears.

I was so intent on fixing that problem that the focus wouldn’t allow me to spend much time on reviewing tutorials and manuals for Cubase. I’ll start focusing on that. My next task will be to do some volume adjustments.

Folks…I appreciate your sharing your expertise.
I

42

Indeed Roger, while your finger click the mouse button your brain gives the input to your finger. :sweat_smile:
Good to see that you can do your thing again.
And that is making Music. :wink:

43

Yes, that’s a good thing.

44

yes it is… :smiley:

Made with Cubase. :wink:

1 Like
45

I was about to open a separate post with my new problem, but I think it is related to this post.

So, while it all aligns with measure 1, and the measure count, compared to the sheet music is correct now, when I export it, it changes all instruments to a grand piano. Surpriiiiisssseee. :laughing:

So, I went back into the song, and changed the display bar offset back to 1. This brought back the apparent data that @Johnny_Moneto identified at the front of the measures. And exporting it and playing…yes, the correct instruments are back.

So the ‘solution’ to the problem of getting the measure count correct pushed that data, off the screen, and then it did not export.

In the end, this is exactly what @Johnny_Moneto was explaining much earlier in this thread.

So, an interesting note, I’ve been using ChatGPT to answer questions for me as I am working in Cubase and get stuck. It’s been quite successful. So, I asked Chat GPT about this, and got what sounds like a solution. I’m posting it below. I’ll probably be giving that a try, although it’ll probably be a slow process. I do find that the instructions from that source sometimes have the commands, etc wrong.

I won’t list the long descriptive question I asked on the tool, but here’s the answer. If any of you find this interesting enough to take the time to read this, if you have suggestions or corrections, I’m all …ears doesn’t work…reading. :smirk:

To address the issue of importing MIDI files with an extra measure from your Yamaha DGX-670, while ensuring the instrument identification data is retained and measure alignment is correct, you can follow these steps:

Step-by-Step Solution

1. Import the MIDI File with the Default Display Bar Offset

  • Import the MIDI:
    • Import the MIDI file into Cubase 13 as you normally do, without changing the display bar offset initially.
    • This should bring in the extra measure that contains the instrument identification data.

2. Identify and Isolate the Instrument Identification Data

  • Locate the Extra Measure:
    • Look at the extra measure (likely measure 1) that was imported. This measure contains the program change data that identifies the instruments used on your Yamaha.
  • Separate the Instrument Data:
    • Select the events in the extra measure that contain the program change information (you can use the List Editor to identify these events more precisely).

3. Move the Instrument Identification Data to Measure 1

  • Cut and Paste:
    • Cut the program change data from the extra measure and paste it into the first beat of measure 1.
    • Ensure that the music starts at measure 2 after this program change data.

4. Adjust the Display Bar Offset

  • Set Display Bar Offset:
    • Now, set the display bar offset to 1, so the music aligns correctly with the sheet music. This should now make the first measure visible as your music starts correctly at measure 1, but with the instrument identification data intact.

5. Export the MIDI File

  • Export with Data Intact:
    • When exporting the MIDI file, ensure that the first measure (which now contains the instrument identification data) is included in the export.
    • Your Yamaha DGX-670 should now recognize the instrument data and play back the correct sounds, starting from the correct measure.

Alternative Approach: Using the Inspector to Manage Program Changes

  • Use Inspector for Program Changes:
    • Instead of relying on the imported data, you can manually set the program changes in Cubase using the Inspector for each track.
    • This way, you can remove the extra measure entirely and manually set the correct instruments for each track before exporting the MIDI file.

Final Check

  • Test on Yamaha:
    • After exporting, test the MIDI file on your Yamaha DGX-670 to ensure that the instruments are correctly identified and that the measure alignment is accurate.

By following these steps, you can maintain the correct measure alignment in Cubase while ensuring that your Yamaha recognizes the proper instrument data. If you need further assistance or encounter any issues, feel free to ask!

46

I like to discourage you from doing this. The reason is that there is not only data for correct patch selection in that initial bar but also data to set up panorama and effects like reverb and chorus. You would lose all that.

Hopefully the bar offset method will work but since none of us have the DGX-670 we cannot try this ourselves.

47

@Johnny_Moneto I appreciate the guidance.

So, looking at the instructions, it says to cut the data from measure 0, move measure 1 to 2, and paste the 0 date in 1.

That doesn’t seem any different to me than just selecting the tracks and sliding them back 1 measure. Here’s a quick screen cap of the data to move to 1.

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Data2007×422 40 KB

Of course all the stuff to the left would go with it.

So, I just did a ctrl-A and selected all of it. Did a Ctrl-X. Then there was no indication that I could select a place to paste it. When I click anywhere, nothing appears selected. So I just pasted it (Ctrl-V). It looks positioned different in measure 1, which of course while it’s in a different line, measure 1 is where it was in the first place.

I wasn’t sure whether to keep the song at same bar position when I changed the bar offset.

Above are thoughts as I did this. The end result was what I started at the very first… when I play it, it jumps to measure 2 and is off count from the sheet music.

If it would be easier I can do a video of what I’m doing and link it here.

I’m feeling guilty. I seem to be pretty needy, and bothering folks here.

48

Every row in this editor shows MIDI data. The thin line just indicates its position on the timeline.

49

Hi Middle_C, the instrument identification data is another part of a story?
When you use a MIDI file, then that DATA is ranked in Numbers in BANKS.
0-127
So, 1 bank from a piano, or a drum kit, 1 bank can hold 128 keynotes.

So, without the instrument identifictaion Data, as you show in your post, are only numbers.
You understand MIDI, so if you load a MIDI file you are not loading Audio Files.
So how do you think about .mid?

And what about your measure without putting in your MIDI files?
If Roger have his solution, then it is solved.
Have a nice day…
P.S. Jazz is the teacher! :wink:

50

I looked into the manual of your Yamaha Piano as the easiest solution to your issue were if the Piano had the ability to offset the measure count itself. So that measure 2 would be displayed as measure 1 and so on.

Unfortunately it seems this is not an available feature within the Piano.
Yamaha acknowledge that it is quite common for commercial MIDI files to use measure 1 for setting up the instrument but they only offer a “Quick Start” to quickly jump to the beginning of when the notes are being played. No display offeset.

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So either you delete measure within Cubase, thus losing all initialization data, or you just get used to the “song” starting on measure 2, or you move everything from bar 2 to e.g. bar 9. For some musicians it might be easier to think in steps of 8 measure, so in your head measure 9 should be read as measure 1.

Not much else you can do here, I think.
Aahh, maybe write to Yamaha (division Digital Pianos) and ask for the feature of “measure offset display”.

51

Hi Middle_C, i read the post from Johnny, and it seams clear that the differents is in the structures from different instruments (nice piano, is an instrument)
So this Yamaha keyboard use measure 1 to put in non note data?

If you look in Cubase, different places that i can manage data.
In the opinion in What If:

If you make your goals clear, in a situation like this, we can try to look if you can manage some things at another way.

How different midi devices, even with or without a sequenser on board, can sometime put the data in another order if you open it in other programs. like Cubase.

If you make music with your YAMAHA piano, then you have many options to.
If you have a sequenser in your YAMAHA, just like the key editor in Cubase is the MIDI sequenser where the notes are set, that event, contains MIDI data to, a part of it, the note settings.

That goes about the midi info note length, volume, pitch per note.
Now in Cubase you can set your volume to the track in the inspector or in the MixConsole, that contains information about the volume from the track.

So you see that there are 2 types the contains information about the volume.
Did you try a MIDI file made in your YAMAHA Piano, open in Cubase, or any other sequenser, the file itself is no Cubase file.
So that is more an external thing.

Maby, and if you see something, you can try to copy the events from your YAMAHA MIDI files when opened in CUBASE, and select all EVENTS, close that CPR PROJECT, Make instrument tracks or MIDI tracks and PASTE the COPIED events to a new project.

Then save it as a MIDI file for in your CUBASE projects.
I hope it works for you in this situation, good luck.

52

Exactly what I do.

53

OP already made their intentions very clear. Read the entire topic thoroughly.

I took the time and read the manual of OP’s Yamaha device. Why don’t you do the same if you want to help?

Maybe 2 places in Cubase but not 2 types.

We’ve been through all that already. Just read the entire topic, please.

54

I understand that the advice is now to start at measure 9.
Oké, then that is i think how that works.
If you can avoid that by copy the events to another project, if that do not work, and i know it is for some projects to much work to change that now, but if you start on new projects now, and you want to use this as you are use it now, i should check for myself first if copy the events to a new project, without any MIDI file involved, because you open a MIDI file in a project.

Why i write this?
It seams a bit indeed as if i do not read the topic well enough, but i can tell you how that works in Cubase self with MIDI files.

Now if i make an instrument file with Groove Agent, and program in the key editor, i can safe it as a midi file.
After that, ik can use that midi file in Groove Agent, by dragging it in Groove Agent, and put it under a DRUMPAD in Groove Agent.

Now i bet you get a rear situation if you open the MIDI file in another MIDI instrument.
But, stay focus in Cubase here i think on this forum.
Because this things you can learn to live with the fact that MIDI is not always easy, but if you understand that a SAVED file contains DATA you want to use.

So, if you work on in the Future with all sort of MIDI files, in Cubase, you can sort that out before you begin editing.

I hope this gets your future MEASURE PROBLEM solved, if not, then start at measure 9.
Excuse if there are some misunderstanding.

P.S. my problem is that i can not produce this problem here to check this in Cubase…

55

Not really, that’s just what some of us do. It depends on what someone is trying to accomplish. For doing scores, setting the origin bar to a negative number is likely the better approach. For me I start at bar 9 because that leaves me room to add stuff to the start of the piece. The OP’s issue is not widespread since most folks record MIDI directly into Cubase rather than recording to a keyboard & then importing that.

56

Ah oké, that is clear, but then you use the fact that you can start an event where you want.
Even to create 1 measure silence.
So, then is starting in Measure 9 no problem.

If Middle_C can have a coiche, to get ride of data from midi files made by other programs or instruments, that should never be a problem, because open a midi file, you can copy all data what you want, to a new project without opening MIDI files in the new project.

So, i think then it is not realy a big problem.
To check this problem, i am not going to buy a YAMAHA piano :joy:
No just kidding, in the 90’s i used a cheap YAMAHA PSR 510 in those days, with a Roland R8 and a MC303, that had sequensers on board.

Because i am a drummer, i was looking for more silence ways to drum, because most people getting paranoid lol.
So in 1996 i bumped in to a PM16 Drumrack from Roland and a R8 human feel rithm composer as midi module, with a sequenser.
So that was DIN Midi in, out and thru

But i was playing in bands that used no midi…

57

First comment: I’m back now, and there are a few posts I’ve not read yet. I’ll get back to that. But first, I found a post from @Johnny_Moneto that somehow I had missed. He uploaded a midi that I think he modified and asked me to see if it plays correct. I think this was around the time I commented about how when I exported the file came in as all piano. That’s behind me, it’s working now. But frankly, I’m not sure at this point why that happened. But gonna leave that for when it happens again.

So, I downloaded the midi from @Johnny_Moneto named 9-Mixed Ensemble-_Clair_de_Lune-9_newExport. It plays fine. It does change tempos at the right point (as played) albeit at measures off by 1 compared to the sheet music. (Actually, some are in wrong locations because I messed them up. That’s what my intent was for the DAW, to correct tempo locations)

So let me throw something out here: In the end I really do not care whether it shows same measure in the sheet music IF when I make changes at 37, based on the sheet music showing it at 37, and it plays correct, even if at measure 36. That may be a confusing statement. Another way of saying it is if I make tempo mods based on the measure the sheet music shows, and it works, even thought it skips over 1, why should I care?

So one of the things that makes it harder (especially for a complete novice to DAWs like me) is that when I pull in a file, for example, Johnny’s modded file, it comes in and does NOT bring tempos, or time signature. Add to that, if I happened to have been editing another song and had bar offset to 1, then shut down for the night, then load the file it still has bar offset of 1 as default, and applies that to the just loaded song.

So at this point I have a song which by now you know my initial goal was to edit those, that plays fine with tempo locations wrong. So, I loaded that in Cubase, and it now has wrong tempos, wrong time signature. In Cubase the music starts on measure 2, and measure 1 is showing. So in Cubase it starts playing at 1, 1 measure silence, then starts playing notes at measure 2. Plays at wrong tempo, and wrong time sig.

I load the tempo track, and it lands on wrong measures due to the fact the song starts at 2. So I closed it, and reloaded, changed the bar offset to 1, and imported the tempo track again. STILL doesn’t work.

If I change thebar offset, the tempo track follows that.

This shouldn’t be so hard. I plan to look at the ChatGPT suggestion again. That is more or less where I was at when I sent the file to Johnny. And go visit the comments I have yet to read above.

If any of you have read to hear, I commend you :grin: :grin: And I bet I confused the heck out of you.

58

So the whole issue, which it’s starting to look like I will have to learn to live with it, is that given the circumstances I am finding, I will have to just live with adjusting tempos at whatever measure it is actually playing at in the DAW, and be sure I carefully adjust the measure to that instead of using the measure in the sheet music.

I’m quite surprised about this. Oh, I think I’ve said that already.

59

Yeah, you got it. Unfortunately your sheet music notes will start at measure 2.
Put the tempo changes according to that without “converting” the measure numbers in your head.

60

Hi, you allready live with this, and i understand that you have to calculate some more because of the starting point.
If another instrument, like your YAMAHA, what is a piano, in that part you wrote that first all instruments were changed in only the same piano and that was solved by Johnny allready.

From my point of view in Cubase and MIDI, if you are using tempo changes in your music, this info in Cubase self is working in Cubase with the same power and i can even make a tempo track.

So, i suppose that offcourse your project in Cubase is a part of more then only Cubase together with your YAMAHA.
But, Johnny explained that very well, what i wrote was the opportunity, because you live with this, for your new projects you have to do some more modifications, just like Johnny did, if you can do that in your Cubase version.

Because more people can run into this problem, but when you start a new project, copy your events from a midi file to a new project, is only the first part.

After that you can put a midi instrument on every track, via the inspector.
At that moment, you look at your measure, and at that point that DATA was not copied.
Then you can make a tempo track and use automation in Cubase.

So in Cubase this work this way, that is for sure.
Good luck.

P.S.
starting all your projects in measure 9 is not a bad idea, because if you do that by all your projects, you get used to the numbers from the measures.