Dorico behaves unexpectedly when set the Horizontal eighth note (quaver) beams within the staff to Snap to staff line positions and Flat eighth note (quaver) beams with inner note closer to the beam than outer notes to Do not allow stem shortening in the Beam section of the Engraving Option.
It is difficult to explain in my non-native language, so please see a screenshots:
I assume this is a bug or something.
If this can be corrected by changing the options, please advise.
Suppose it seems to be a bug, where can I report it?
Thank you for your reply.
So a similar situation has been discussed before then.
I think “Flat eighth note (quaver) beams with inner note closer to the beam than outer notes” option, which is added in version 4.0.20, does not work properly.
Ross is very clear about the last 3 groups anyway. The As should be sit (pg 109), the Gs should be straddle (pg 108), and the Es should be straddle (pg 106). Dorico gets all three of those “wrong” by default anyway. My settings at least get those correct, but suffer from the same issues as soyas for the groups of 3.
Dorico doesn’t have the “Ted Ross rule” turned on by default so I don’t think the position in the factory default settings is particularly relevant. I’ll have to look into what the snapping is doing here but I’m afraid these rules are sufficiently complicated that it’ll require a bit of investigative effort, so it’ll probably have to wait til I’m back at work in the new year.
The attached project has only two changes to the Engraving Options when compared with the factory defaults. The value of Default stem length on the Notes page has been set to 3 1/4 spaces (instead of the default of 3 1/2 spaces), and Beams positioned above or below the staff is set to Use natural stem lengths. (Flat eighth note (quaver) beams with inner note closer to the beam than outer notes is set to Do not allow stem shortening, as it is by default.)
Thank you all.
Trying @dspreadbury ’s options, I got the results I expected with respect to quaver.
However it isn’t usable for the reasons stated by @FredGUnn .
I believe that Flat eighth note (quaver) beams with inner note closer to the beam than outer notes option affects even beams without inner note closer to the beam than outer notes.
In a nutshell, Flat eighth note (quaver) beams with inner note closer to the beam than outer notes option affects even beams without inner note, I think.
I don’t think that is the explanation here… I think the problem is probably that setting “… beams with inner note closer to the beam …” to “Do not allow stem shortening” (the new v4.0.20 behaviour) also turns off the “Ted Ross option” (my ref.: STEAM-11580), and that you’re expecting the “Ted Ross option” still to be on. However, if you attach a project then it will be easier to take a look at the settings you’re using.
Does any reputable publisher not shorten stems though? Ross obviously calls for it, as pages 104-110 list the stem lengths too, but pretty much every reputable publisher also shortens beamed stems. In fact, it’s so prevalent I’m not sure I can find any that don’t do this. Even Henle, which has some very unique ideas about beam angles, shortens them. Here’s the first bar of the first piece on their New Publications page, which shows shortened 3.25 space stems.
Publishers like Boosey and Schirmer have some odd beam angles and stem lengths in their newer Sibelius published work, but generally their SCORE and older engraved work is fairly consistent with shortened stems. A quick look through IMSLP shows Breitkopf, Peters, Ricordi, etc., all using shortened stems too.
EDIT: Older (1850s) Breitkopf seems to have pretty long stems, but their later work seems a bit more consistent.
1.dorico and 2.dorico are set to factory defaults except for Horizontal eighth (quaver) beams within the staff and Flat eight note (quaver) beams with inner note closer to the beam than outer notes. Beams are unevenly positioned already. 1.dorico (770.3 KB) 2.dorico (771.3 KB)
3.dorico and 4.dorico is set to my style. Shortened stem lengh for eight (quaver) on the Notes page has been set to 2 3/4 spaces instead of the default 3 spaces. 3.dorico (770.2 KB) 4.dorico (771.5 KB)
Only 4.dorico works as expected.
The other three goes wrong, I think.
