Problem with editing dynamics in play mode

I’m having problems with editing dynamics in play mode. I was working in galley view and editing dynamics in the play mode. But then, when I switched to page view, the hairpins became over extened! Now dorico shows different information in galley view and page view and I have no clue what happened (or how to fix it). I was only altering the dynamic values in the dynamics lane and never changing the horizontal position. Before the edits in play mode, everything was normal.

This is only one example, but there are actually multiple instancies of the problem:

Galley view:

Page view:

Play mode:

Reduced project file:
Problem with dynamics.dorico (596.3 KB)

I was working on an external monitor, if that makes a difference.

It seems that the system break kind of fixes the problem, so the problem has something to do with changing the row…

This is indeed a consequence of editing the start and end positions of dynamics in Play mode. If the dynamics start or end later, then they will be notated accordingly in Write mode too.

I was also guessing that that might be the problem. However, I was very careful to not change the rhythmic position of the dynamics - only relative volume.

In play mode I can see that the hairpin ends where it originally ended:

For some reason when I adjust the volume of the hairpin, it causes it to change it’s rhythmic lenght - even though no alteration is seen in play mode:

Here is a short video that demonstrates the problem:

That’s a really cool feature though :tea:… thanks!

I found out where the problem is: for some reason dorico adds the lenght of the hair pin to the rhythmic duration when I adjust the last node in play mode:

Example 1:

Example 2:

But fortunately I found a solution to this!

Solution 1:

Solution 2:

But does this happen only on my computer or is it really a bug in the program?

I tested this a bit more, it is actually the lenght of the previous hairpin that determines the error:

Also, it seems that the end of messa di voce cannot be edited at all:

If someone else could test this behaviour I could be sure that it’s not a problem with my computer or my setup. I’m running Dorico 3.5.10. and MacOS Catalina.

I’ll take a closer look at this when I get a chance. All I will say in the meantime is that it’s vanishingly unlikely to be a problem unique to your computer.

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Hi! Have you had time yet to look at this behaviour? I’m just asking, since this is something I dealing with almost daily. In a nutshell the problem is that I can’t really edit linked dynamics in play mode, because of the unwanted behaviours documented above in the videos. It just would be comforting for me to know if there is a change that this could be improved for the next version.

I’m afraid not, but it’s still on my list of things to look at. I will report back once I’ve had a chance to dig into it.

I’d like to report one more strange behaviour of editing dynamics in play mode:

In the example above, I’d simply like to make the “mp” a bit louder. But even this is very hard for me to accomplish with the dynamic line, as the video demonstrates.

Has anyone had time yet to look at the problems with the dynamic line and linked dynamics? If this could be fixed for the next version, I would be very glad as the concept would be so useful for me! At the moment I have to make separate scores for playback and engraving, mostly because of these problems.

If you need to change the length of the gradual dynamic, you need to do that in Write mode in this case, because the end position of the gradual change is limited by the immediate dynamic at the end of the hairpin. So you need to move that immediate dynamic in order to allow the hairpin to apply to further notes.

Sorry if I was unclear, in the example above I didn’t want to lengthen the hairpin, just change the loudness of mp so that it would affect all of the following notes. But that seems to be impossible without adjusting also the length of the hairpin.

I think you can see what I mean if you look at the note velocities in the example: In the dynamics line it looks like mp has been adjusted correctly but this change translates only to the velocities during the crescendo, not after it.

But I’d be happy to create tomorrow a minimal project and steps to reproduce for all of the cases mentioned in this thread, if that would be helpful!

Right, I see what you mean. You’re right that at present changing the end point of the hairpin will not do that (and I agree that it should) but you should be able to get the result you’re looking for by adding a single point immediately after the end of the hairpin using the pencil tool.

Great, and sorry again for being unclear! Another fix has been simply to draw a new crescendo over it with the line tool. But the problem is that if the phrase is moved elsewhere, that alteration in the dynamic -line will not follow it.

Why I would love to be able to edit the dynamics in play mode is the situations where there are multiple instruments using the same dynamics (for example string section): A change made to one dynamic marking is automatically reflected the all other instruments with the same dynamics. When it works it is very fast and effective!


Now that Dorico 4 seems to be getting a brand new set of MIDI -editing tools, I wonder if someone from the team has yet had the change to look at these behaviours with linked dynamics and the dynamics lane?

By the way, I’m very exited about bringing the MIDI -editing tools to write mode, seems like a much more efficient solution!

to be honest, I would wait for Dorico 4 and the exciting new MIDI tools. I hope that at the very least, the controls will be immediately available for at least the primary dynamic controller (ideally of course all automation lanes) as having it only for velocity as in the iPad initial release is of little use for most virtual instruments you’d use on a desktop.

Anyway, I can confirm that in certain situations, including some of what you’ve described, that hairpins don’t work as expected and that the workarounds are sometimes not what you’d expect. It’s certainly not just something with your computer. It can also be library-specific and depend on things like inbuilt playback latency which is often designed primarily for live playback rather than notation software. Still, I’ve hardly ever been completely stuck so far!