Project logical editor fails to select instrument tracks

[tracksauce]

I’ve made a preset in the Project Logical Editor that selects all tracks routed to Stereo Out.

This is a huge time saver for exporting stems, and lets be honest, as professionals with massive sessions every day this is what many of us spend a big chunk of our time doing. The least fun bit.

So this preset is amazing. My only problem is that the Project Logical Editor simply ignores the instrument tracks, so I have to remember to go in and select them manually every time which can get a bit annoying.

Would be lovely to have this fixed!

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

The Output of the Instrument track is the Instrument’s MIDI Port. For example 01. HALion Sonic - MIDI.

[tracksauce]

Hi Martin, thank you for your explanation! In my opinion this implementation is conceptually incorrect. Here’s why:

1: The Instrument track does have audio output in exactly the same way as the other audio type tracks.

The fact that “Output Name/Channel” is valid for all but one of the above is nonsensical. They have the same name (“Output Routing”), they look the same, they behave the same - except all of a sudden in the PLE they are not the same?

2: In reality the Instrument track does not have a MIDI output.

The instrument track encapsulates a midi track and a VST-instrument but the MIDI-data is always sent internally to it’s VST-instrument. So it’s not “outputting” any MIDI at all. The only output an instrument track has is audio.

An instrument track is “midi in, audio out”.

That aside for a second, my desired use case is very simple and clear: Select all tracks routed to Stereo Out.

Yet it is not possible to do this because as far as the PLE is concerned, instrument tracks don’t even have audio outputs. Clearly this is totally backwards and not useful.

Would be amazing if this could be looked at.

Thanks

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

@tracksauce

The Instrument track does have audio output “routing” in exactly the same way as the other audio type tracks.

This screenshot comes from MixConsole, where you can see Channels, not Tracks. In MixConsole, you can see the Audio Return of the Instrument Track.

The concept is the same as the Mute button behaviour, which is different in the Project window and MixConsole, if you use multiple MIDI Tracks (routed to the Instrument Track), or if you use the multi-outs on the Instrument Track.

@tracksauce

In reality the Instrument track does not have a MIDI output.

In reality it does, but it can be hidden to make the user’s life easier. But in reality, an Instrument Track is a MIDI Track with an Audio Return Channel combined to one.

[tracksauce]

Thanks Martin!

Apologies if I come off brazen here, it’s not my intention. I’m not arguing with your explanation, which was actually very helpful.

My issue is purely with Steinbergs inconsistent topology.

1. All track types in Cubase that can carry an audio signal has a field labeled “Output Routing” which sets the destination for the audio signal.
   (This includes Audio Tracks, Instrument Tracks, Group Tracks and Effect Tracks)

2. This field is targetable in the Project Logical Editor with the Filter Target “Output Name/Channel” . Great! That’s very useful.

3. Except, because of implementation details this doesn’t work on Instrument Tracks. Despite the Instrument Track having the same “Output Routing” field through out Cubase. In the PLE that “Output Routing” is suddenly impossible to target, and instead a “MIDI-output” is targeted. This is inconsistent and not useful.

4. Even though the Instrument Track may technically have a “MIDI-output” because of implementation details, it should not be referred to as “Output” for an Instrument Track. Conceptually an Instrument track is “midi in, audio out”.

5. This is not just my opinion. Take a look at the “Add Instrument Track” dialogue:
   

   
   
   There is a field for configuring the Audio Outputs because that is useful but
   there is no field for configuring the MIDI-output, because it makes no sense on an Instrument Track.

The MIDI-data conceptually doesn’t “leave” the Instrument Track (It may leave the underlying midi track due to how its implemented, but it doesn’t leave the Instrument Track as a concept). The Instrument Track consumes its own MIDI. You may of course create additional MIDI tracks and send more MIDI to it, that also makes sense.

Same thing with the MixConsole. There’s no way to configure the MIDI-output, but a way to configure the Audio Output Routing. That is sensible.

Same thing in the inspector (although allegedly there might be a way there that I’m very curious about).

Because, again, conceptually Instrument tracks are “midi in, audio out”. On a technical level it might be implemented a little differently, and that’s fine.

@Martin.Jirsak

This screenshot comes from MixConsole, where you can see Channels, not Tracks.

Sure, here’s the same thing from the inspector. They are clearly all labeled “Output Routing”:

For “Output Name/Channel” in the PLE to not target the “Output Routing” field above on just one of them is broken design. Certainly inconsistent.

@Martin.Jirsak

But in reality, an Instrument Track is a MIDI Track with an Audio Return Channel combined to one.

I understand that this is how it is implemented technically. I get that Cubase is developed largely with OO design patterns and that re-using the MIDI Track code like this makes a lot of sense, however that’s a little bit besides my point.

Nobody creates an Instrument Track because they want to “Output” some MIDI to something. That’s what the MIDI Track is for. People do create an Instrument Track because they want to play an Instrument and output some audio from it.

@Martin.Jirsak

In reality it does, but it can be hidden to make the user’s life easier.

Please tell me where I can unhide it! I have all the inspector sections open but can’t find it?

You don’t mean the “Instrument” field right?

All this to say:

“Output” in The Project Logical Editor should target whats referred to as Output Routing in the rest of the application. Aka. the Audio Return Channel in the Instrument Tracks. Not the internal MIDI Track output.

Have a beatiful day,
Cheers

[Martin.Jirsak]

Hi,

These are valid points.

[tracksauce]

Thanks Martin,

My topology idealism aside, all I really care about is some way to address the Audio Return Channel routing in the PLE for Instrument Tracks.

Then it would be possible to export stems with only two commands in Cubase (thanks to that fantastic little chain-button)

1. Run PLE preset that selects all tracks that are routed to Stereo Out
2. Run the Audio Mixdown command. Boom, done!

Fresh stems served. Send off to mix.

That would be pretty powerful.

Maybe it would even be possible to combine those in to just one command with a macro…

one can dream