Quality Guru Tutorials

Im just trying to get around drum edits…well actually just debleeding which SL should do amazingly.?

A basic drum unmix doesnt seem great and not much better than 11 (vs 12). After reading the manual a couple of times, its seems there is FFT dependency for some tools and not for others….but debleed is one of them

Does anyone know of a detailed tutorial with v12 that highlights best (good) practice for handling drums before I get into it? Especially debleed but also can using an instrument model improve drums ie getting a library of single shots with varation over 15-20 secs to help?

I do not follow

I do not

unmix of what? a stereo down mix? of what quality? Stem/single drums? You don’t say what you are working on

You are right…apologies

We work with live recorded drums, sometimes with whole bands, sometimes just tracked by themselves

The main reason Im looking to use SL is because (genre dependent) for drums where we are using a main “kit mic”, it is for very open captures where that kit mic presents the instrument as a whole and the close mics reinforce (not always). It also means that best practice is to have cymbal mics but in 40 years…I have never heard this work so well

So

The idea is to mic the same

1. MS stereo kit mic (AEA r88 into transformerless tube pre) for whole picture and cymbal control
2. Close mics (D112) on kick, toms (atm450 + nt6) etc

Scenario A requires the kit mic to be unmixed and combined with the close mics using gonio alignment. Unmixing this track is the most challenging as it requires unbled tracks as the source elements

Unmixing leaves a lot of artifacts and bleed is mixed, often even cymbal attacks contain the snare attacks and it requires so much edit work I just go back to old school processes

Scenario B is where its jazz etc and we use the 1 kit mic for the whole capture as the mic is capable of serious low end…this should just be an unmix but its like what we are capturing is not really matching the model. It does often contain alternate snares etc which can be tuned very high…eg Pearl Firecracker 12” often between C/D/E so around 350hz although the shell still puts out a 250hz. Any close mic integration is really noticeable because phase is obvious in the open space and no matter how you do it…it can be heard ie phase alignment is only ever a best compromise

Scenario C is where we are doing fairly isolated stuff eg metal/goth where the close mics dominate but the kit mic/rooms are really just about cymbals and once again, the unmix really does do well. The close mics are even spectrally sidechained into the rooms but bleed in this case is really bad.

Anyway, The very essence of the debleed seemed quite obvious, grab a source and select the other tracks etc but its just not great because of the artifacts and fluffing around. Then I find out that there are other factors…like FFT windows etc

Im a mixer and producer…SL sounds like a better job than I am currently doing but it would help if there were pointed tutorials for the more complex aspects. I was originally inspired by one of the drum producers raving about it, then I see Andrew Scheps talking about it…but yeah…maybe Im drowning in siltation from a long time of doing it the hard way but sitting in front of a screen is no longer any joy…thats why I have gone to hybrid…its gotta be about music, the spontaneous joy of people and capturing, curating that but also always looking for ways to improve.

I thought the instrument capture now available might help so I tried doing 10 secs of dry hits (each element) as a reference for that session but it seemed to have made no difference for drums and there is practically nothing else in the manual to augment that?
Training your own models sounds like a great feature and solution

HTH

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Have you tried the Shure KSM32 mic as a single mic on a kit? Place it out front, 10’, chest high. Try it if you get a chance, the 32 is remarkable single source mic, IMO.

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@mr.roos Cheers for the tip

TBH slowly but surely my condensors are getting less and less work. I worked for AEA for a short while so that added to my ribbons mics and using an r88 in ms has been by for the best and most flexible for many genres. You can tune the room/kit balance by placement and in post..and for so many other reasons. I actually did some early drum tracking and sent just the stereo r88 track to some audiophiles who were so blown away…I actually found a new audience for mixes and do separate -18s because they have the gear to actually repro it.
There are so many mics…the 32 is a great mic although I never added 1. TBH, funnily enough the NT1a, while it gets a bash…also has some tricks for that position…but yeah, once I had it down with ribbons…I kind of havent gone back and you basically just need a tilteq and comp to taste for open acoustic stuff…it really is without peer.
If I get a chance to borrow one, Ill give it a go (but I literally have 10 condensor options)…always something to learn!
HNY!

The R88 seems to be a remarkable mic, indeed. I have 2 ribbon mics (much cheaper versions!) that I’ve modified with different transformers and they have their place. (BTW, one important thing I’ve learned about the cheaper versions (with larger ribbons, Cascade Vin-Jet) is that the ribbons need to be stored in the vertical (as opposed to horizontal) position or the ribbons will sag against the magnets. Been there.) Well, you having worked at AEA, awesome opportunity there! I’m not so fortunate and hence have invested more into mic pres and a variety of condensor and dynamic mics. Also, speaking of multi mic use, the SoundRadix Auto Align 2 plugin is a real headache saver if you haven’t run into it.

All of this aside, I hope you do try the KSM32. I think it’s a one of Shure’s best mics. You mentioned the NT1a, the earlier NT1 preamps were ‘designed’ (based on the Schoeps circuit) by Jim Williams ( Jim Williams: Mastering Console Design & Audio Circuits | Tape Op Magazine and he had a suggestion to improve them as time went on (he thought they were a bit bright). I have a pair that I’ve done this mod to along with changing the capsules to a K47 type. They’re solid mics that pair well to a transformer input/output based pre. Read that article, you’ll get an understanding of what he likes, and be warned, not ‘mojo’ or transformers or anything besides conveying an ‘accurate’ reproduction of the performance. I’m not in his camp per se but he is an interesting man with interesting ideas and opinions.

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Thanks for the info…probs off topic now…

I’m only a project studio but I have prob 10 premium condensors a handlful of cheaper eg rode and prob 4 high end ribbons + a couple of super cheap but rarely rec in mono except kit close mics

But

The pre is so important eg fave pre is sebatron vmp4k even though not dearest but flexible…if using the r88 for singer/guitarist you have to use impedance match first (KT stereo) then through mic in which is tranny input, however if you are doing a jazz kit, in via di as it bypass tranny and is much punchier

Sounds like u have spent time zoning in…great sound isn’t always about expense. My best snare much is still a 57 but with the mercenary audio mod.

Ribbons are wild with a range of pre options…otherwise…