Don’t want to start an argument, but a betatester is a person who tests what developers have been written/coded.
They are there to find bugs, point period.
Besides that, they do report design flaws or bad implementations, but that is also where it ends.
If you really want someone to blame, then it is de person who has written the specification in the first place.
Even if the design flaw is reported from the first second it was handed to the testers, there is no guarantee that it can be fixed/redone within time.
So please … be carefull who you blame.
It might very well be that eveybody (product managers/developers/testers) is very much aware that this is not the proper implemantation of this feature.
I can’t speak for this specific case, but imagine that you are commisioned to build a house on a cliff.
You build strong and solid foundations, the house, the roof.
The moment you start decorating, you notice that you have made a mistake.
But you are two months from final delivery, and other works have begun on your foundations.
The only thing you can do is bite the bullet and come up with a plan B, so you can fix the issue at a later stage, without affecting other stuff too much.
This feature comes from Cubase Product Management; they haven’t had a a “higher” version number yet, which means that they can only do bugfixes, no redesigns. I have high hopes that this gets addressed as soon as they can.
Well, but as you might see when reading my (and others) posts - this is a “yes or no” thing for me. Currently I decided to stay with C5.5 (maybe checking out N5.1 instead of, I just installed) until this is fixed. I feel very uncomfortably with that because N5.5 has on the other hand side everything I was waiting for since years.
The problem I see here:
Lets say Cubase 6 is released for 9 months and Nuendo 5.5 for 6 months till things are fixed - in this case it means things have to be changed again. During that time a lot of users will have changed their workflow to be able to do their work. Now they have to change again to get re-used to the new-old behaviour.
Example:
In Nuendo 1 & 2 you where able to stack events on top of each other (dragging them from the recording track to a “backup” track) and they will stay there in the order you placed them. Then things changed and now the takes / events are stacked in the order of their number, that means - when I drag vox_12 over vox_23 - vox_12 will be BELOW take 23. Lots of users were complaining. In that particular case I get used to that and this behaviour is part of my workflow… So I use “bring to front” as a keystroke a lot, using it when the event is still selected (but invisible behind another). The way I handle it it is quite effective and cool for me. Now things have changed again and I have to get used to that - usually the hard way - because it slows down your working speed while you have to get work done. In this particular case I don’t complain because I know other users might me happy because of that change. All I can complain here is that we first had to work 5 years with the “new” behaviour. In that case it should be better to just leave it the way it is… mabye. Ok, this was just an example.
Please do what you can that we don’t have to wait 5 years…
I suppose this is the problem as I see it. As much as Steinberg tries to postulate that these are two different products, Cubase is inevitably the ‘foundation’ for Nuendo. So if a big new feature of SEQ * is designed in a way that is no good - the Nuendo team cannot say “nice idea, but our Nuendo customers wont have it like that, we will implement it differently the way OUR users would like it” - because then it will work different in Nuendo and Cubase (which is OK because they are TOTALLY different products no?). Or is the Nuendo team just the Cubase team once Cubase is done for a while? In which case they probably wont have an argument with themselves…
I remember Cubase 5.2 PB1 - that’s how far it went…
There are still things we were discussing on the forum that has no solution today - almost 10 years later…
I remember a statement from a Steinberg employee just before SX (no name mentioned) “…when we get on this new code-base we can put out a new patch almost every day…”. We see how that went…
I wonder if Steinberg will ever think that users have a brain. BTW: 10 years ago we could actually have a discussion on the forum where developers and users exchanged ideas and could comment things in a critical way without having their posts deleted by some very enthusiastic moderator. … I guess this post will get deleted too… (I have a copy)
will we see a solution for this in nuendo 5.x or do we have to switch back or wait and pay for n6?
it´s the only thing that really bothers me in n5 but it is definately a no-go.
Does undo work if you accidentally bring an old event to the top?
If not - could we at least ask Steinberg to consider adding this to the list of undo options? That way even if they don’t have the bandwidth to fix the problem now, they could at least hotfix us with a way to undo a disaster in the making…
I have been away from the forums for several several weeks now, expeically once news of THIS behavior broke out.
Is this still the norm? Or have they fixed it with an update yet?
I am still at 5.1 or what ever the early version of 5 is…until i know this is fixed. Mixing and Editing pop/rock albums is what i do and i cant be wasting time chasing takes all over the place.
If i ‘understand’ this problem correctly, its a total deal breaker for me and my workflow.
So much so that it would cause me to look elsewhere for a DAW (when 5.1 becomes obsolete for me).
I have not even thought about looking at a different DAW since 2001 when i made the jump from Sonar (and many Cakewalk versions prior) to Nuendo 1.
I tend to be a very loyal customer.
Pretty sad that Steiny’s Geeks would design themselves out of a platform. So much so that the nuts and bolts recording engineers who helped build this software to what it is…is left scratching their heads.
Then again, my cynical side comes out and KNOWS it will be back in N6 as a NEW FANTASTICAL MAGICAL feature for the mere price of a 350.00 upgrade.
Sigh~
Dennis a long time loyal Steinberg supporter.
Since 2001 dito. Could not agree more - same situation over here. I would love to use N5.5 which has finally all the features I ever waited for, but they break it in a way that the application is useless for me. Working in 5.1 and Cubase 5.5 (basically N5.1) over here.
Oh, be careful - C6 is way worse then N5.5 GUI related!! I am most lucky that some C6 things are not in N5.5 - for example that ugly and workflowkilling “inverted color of selected events”.
That lanes thing made me stay away from N5.5 as well, like you said. I am using lanes a LOT over here. Vox, bass, Trumpets, Flutes etc - everything which might recorded with only single track.
Right now my gut tells me my next upgrade…if its stiney, will be Cubase.
It seems more obvious than ever that the Rock/Pop album makers are long forgotten. They are fully comitted to the Post Production for film and TV. I wonder if those guys needs are fully being met (at the cost of our benefits and workflow).
IF they continue with the same workflow nonsense in future Cubase upgrades…making it Less Logical (if i wanted less logical i’d buy Logic!) i will be looking elsewhere. I have NO Idea what the world of PT offers these days and i am heavily invested and LOVE my UAD stuff. So i will have to find a platform that uses and abuses UAD stuff.
Me actually typing this stuff breaks my heard actually. I was there from the beginning. Heck i drove to Nashvegas and saw Sir Ondo demo N1 to us all. Paid the ticket for admision and have upgraded every step…short of N2 which was Steiny’s Vista!!!
I am at a loss of this trainwreck of a workflow situation.
I patiently waited for the 64 bit world to reveal its self. I did the upgrade only to find that my UA stuff would not follow, so here i sit with 5.1 32 bit.
Here i will stay till the world changes again and i am forced to buy an upgrade because some Plug in will alter my life.
Dunno, but i feel the Flag is flying at half mast for the flagship…
That way it is. Haha, V2 Steinbergs Vista - so true!
Sitting here with C5.5 32bit (because of UAD and Waves)
Having paid for N5 update (400 bucks) just because of N5.5 which I can not use.
I will not pay 400 bucks for N6 again… I bought Cubase because of a “second licence for mobile use” - while owning Nuendo 4 (and 1 and 2 and 3) - started to work in Cubase 5 because of an external project. And found out that for pop/rock/metal recording/editing/mixing it is 99% equal to Nuendo. Yes, there are some gimmix in Nuendo which are usefull for music but well… But I LOVE Nuendo and I WANT use a working 5.5x over here!!
Why not just fix lanes and “event on top” things? Its the same in C6… I complained about that (events on top thing) over there in the Cubase Forum, but no one was interested. I don’t understand… But I do not spend much time here (and there) so maybe this was discussed there as well.
I just stepped over the Cubase 6.05 announcement. Well, the thing with the automation nodes is the only thing which will be fixed out of the dozends of miss-design bugs. I have to say the automation nodes thing is cool but this is not a showstopper over here.
Showstoppers are:
New “enhanced” lanes which are making serious recording, overdubbing editing a nightmare if not impossible
splitting with alt+click will split all events, clicking on an event will bring it to top - even if you do not want that.
Events are on top when moved with the mouse (makes editing impossible)
Overlapping events are crosshatched and quite nasty when having a lot of them.
lots of smaller issues… Most of them needs “a completely redesign of the audioengine” they say - even stuff like a disconnected vsti clicktrack… hell…
I am still waiting and hoping.
I bought N5 upgrade because of N5.5. I most likely will deinstall Nuendo 5 and N5.5 and return the update to steinberg if the f**ked up stuff is not fixed, it is absolutely not legit to sell not working product. Ok, my problem is that N5 is cool so far and N5.5 was free. I do not need N5 (have N4 and C5) - I need N5.5!!!
despite the other issues discussed in this thread, I don’t know why it is a problem of Nuendo
if the UA stuff or other plug-ins are still not 64bit… ? We can just offer the platform and ask plug-in
vendors to make their products available as 64bit version, but in the end it’s a decision of each vendor.
By the way, the next update is indeed firstly a Cubase one, but just because Nuendo get some additinal
fixes for features that aren’t available in Cubase. Beginning of December we will have the 6th update within
the Nuendo 5 lifecycle.
@ Timo: Of course you are right But here are long-time users and Nuendo addicted fans which are left in the dark regarding some serious issues which are rendering Nuendo 5.5 unusable for them - till things are fixed.
@ Bredo:
I yesterday checked Cubase 6.04 on my Macbook and here the events (on regular tracks) are not automatically on top after I moved them with the mouse - here everything is fine - beside lanes and the other issues - I could use for editing! I HOPE that they will fix/change that in the upcoming Nuendo hotfix.
(I have a copy)