Also worth mentioning that VSL’s product management app, Vienna Assistant, has a “Dorico Wizard” feature that will automatically create and install Dorico playback templates (with endpoints) out of a selection of their libraries that you own. Next best solution for out-of-the-box playback after NP.
Thank you all. Enjoyed the video and it confirmed my existing viewpoint - NP is almost peerless for out-of-the-box mock up.
Forgive my ignorance, but does NPPE use all the usual impressive NP stuff but ‘farms out’ only the parts diverted to the library add-ons and retains that fantastic overall NP sound?
I haven’t worked with any NPPEs/third-party libraries, so have no direct NP-alone/NP + NPPE + library comparative experience to offer. My crude understanding is that NP + NPPE does all of the same kinds of “internal” expression-map/“humanization” stuff that it does) before playing its own modeled sounds (basically, its own playback engine), but now instead worked out by Wallander to get similar “out-of-the-box” results from external sample libraries.
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Thank you - that makes sense and is what I had hoped to hear.
So, new laptop + new libraries. Great… when the d… thing eventually arrives!
Totally agree. I regularly use Synchron Prime with NPPE for concert band works; mixing the Prime instruments with NP’s saxes works quite well; unless your work (with saxes) is intended to be used as live accompaniment, the results (NP saxes combined with PRIME instruments) are quite good. The timbral difference between a sampled Eb and Bb clarinet would be difficult to distinguish. No need to spend $$$ on a saxophone library. It won’t sound $$$ better than Noteperformer’s anyway. I have Chris Heine Horns, and the saxes (in Dorico or a notation program) are quite problematic to get to sound authentic ( I do like his Flugelhorn, though).
That’s a good assessment.
NP’s native sounds are synthesized, which have benefits of agility and precision, but the obvious downside of not always sounding so realistic or pretty. However, NP’s strength on the whole is that it creates a fantastic and realistic sense of balance, humanization, and variation of playing techniques & combinations that you can’t really find in any sample library.
Sample libraries, on their own with expression maps, have the bonus of sounding more beautiful and realistic, but tend to be a bit wily and all over the place in terms of volume, articulations, and timing/latency. These issues are easier to manage in a DAW, but in a score it can be quite maddening as anyone who has used the BBCSO Pro playback template can attest, where you spend more time as an IT Technician than you do making music.
Thus enter NPPE - they effectively act as a bridge between the two, offering the power, agility, precision, and balance (both with volume and timing) of NP, but with the sonic quality of realistic samples.
The NPPEs also offer “cheats” for the sample library where such sounds may not exist, for example con sordino on instruments where the samples may not be recorded, by using intelligent filtering and humanization to get it sounding pretty close.
It’s not always perfect, but I find it truly is the best of both worlds most of the time.
I have used a handful of NPPEs and by far I have found the VSL Synchron series to be the most reliable and consistent across the board. BBCSO sounds great but even with NPPE it can be a bit of a battle for some passages which VSL handles with ease. I cannot speak to EastWest but I hear good things.
Before making investment - check YouTube for NPPE library comparisons - there’s several posted by Wallander using an example of various scores so you can hear how each library responds to different types of music and decide which you prefer.
Finally to the OP interested in saxophones – I highly recommend AcousticSamples VHorns Saxes - which are hybrid sample-modelled. They sound fantastic, much better than NP’s, and there are already expression maps and playback templates created for use in Dorico. You can create a hybrid playback template which loads VHorns just for the saxes and then NP for everything else, which is exactly what I’ve done. You’ll need to do some level/reverb matching in the mix as they tend to be a lot louder than NP out of the box but they really sound fantastic and are incredibly agile.
Thank you guys - that is a great description and just the clarification needed.
I am happy with the NP sounds generally, would just like a few more realistic wind/brass band instruments without breaking the bank, as I think it is very much a case of diminishing returns.
Annoying strings “out of tune bug” renders it useless unless one downgrades Opus 2 or 3 versions.
NPPE with sample libraries sounds completely different from native NP. I’m sure some elements of the NP algorithms are shared between the two, but I think some are bound to be different.
Look up the remaining AcousticSamples collection - VWinds, VHorns. All very excellent, extremely playable and expression maps are ready to go. And they do go on sale a few times a year. With Black Friday coming up… 
Is it possible to pare down the sound libraries to get a basic set up. I don’t need the full on symphony sounds just enough to hear a rough idea of what I’m writing.
Ps (is it possible to totally eliminate the bagpipes from everything sshhh)
The saxophone sample quality issue has been oft discussed. I’ve found that it sometimes depends on the texture of an arrangement as to how NP’s saxes sound. As I mentioned, I have Chris Heine Horns, but I’ve found using them in Dorico problematic. Here is a composition of mine that uses Flugelhorn from Chris Heine Horns, NP’s Sax & Trombone and a rhythm section created in Band-in -a- Box but played with NP. On the whole, I think the horns work pretty well in this context. That’s something I really appreciate about Dorico and NP-the ability to “mix and match.” Dropbox
Again, forgive my ignorance, but can I buy one piano (say, the v C. Bechstein D 282) and use that within NPPE, or do I need to buy the complete Pianoteq program to get it to work?
Thank you
Nothing to forgive — it’s quite a lot to grapple with!
You will not need a NotePerformer Playback Engine (NPPE), just Pianoteq and whatever piano(s) from them you wish.
As I understand it (which is not as deeply as others here), pianos are much simpler than sustained instruments for a DAW or notation software to “talk” to, since the host software is largely just triggering notes to initiate. MIDI note velocity and dynamics curve for the response of the instrument to those velocities is about it, along with pedal indications. (There are also subtleties of polyphonic voicing, which Dorico is well prepared to handle, adjustibly.)
In my experience, Pianoteq is pretty “plug-and-play” with Dorico, but perhaps others here have dialed in specific settings in either or both together that you and I can both learn from…
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Heard some good news from Babylonwaves today. Apparently they are making a Dorico version of their Art Conductor expression maps, and they are “nearly done”. No other details as of yet, but if they support the same breadth of libraries that their DAW expression maps do, it will be huge.
These expression maps won’t magically make all libraries work wonderfully in Dorico, as expression maps aren’t powerful enough to correct balance and agility issues in libraries in the way NotePerformer Playback Engine is, but they would save people the work in most cases of having to make maps from scratch.
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Yep that’s correct. Having set up dozens and dozens of custom expression maps, I find piano and most tuned percussion to be the absolute easiest, and can in fact function totally fine with the expression map ‘Default.’ These instruments are largely responsive only to velocity, and length articulations such as staccato vs. legato phrasing are handled automatically and intuitively unlike sustaining instruments which require different samples to be triggered and a lot of expression mapping.
The only pianos in which I’ve gone an extra mile are prepared pianos to trigger unique articulations and special effects, but regarding the question above I would say having a piano within an NPPE doesn’t really do a whole lot. I don’t think many NPPEs even support pianos - I have the BBCSO one - likely the primary benefit is that it places it within that same room and balances the dynamics with the rest of the orchestra so you get what you expect (whereas using Pianoteq will require some additional mixing as it is comparatively close/loud to most orchestral NPPEs). For the record I dislike the BBC Piano and do not recommend it – I think mixing a good piano library to fit the rest is a better choice!
Wow! I haven’t been writing in a DAW lately but I have previously very much enjoyed their maps when I do. That will be amazing and hopefully really open up a lot of instruments that I’ve quite frankly given up on mapping myself (due to time and energy).
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