I’m switching from Finale to Dorico and I also have just received a new Mac mini M4 with additional RAM (= 24 GB).
I’ve been pretty old-fashioned, using Finale with GPO / Marching Band to write large wind orchestra scores. I’d like to switch to a better, up-to-date library soon.
As far as I see, the best results I would get from Note Performer + e. g. BBC or Spitfire Symphony Orchestra. I have then come to the shocking realization that this combination has absurd RAM requirements, asking for at least 64 GB, better 128 GB RAM for the Spitfire Symphony Orchestra, for example – which means that even the new Mac mini Pro with highest possible RAM configuration would just meet the minimum requirements! Spitfire itself asks for MUCH less, saying: 4 GB RAM (6 GB recommended for large KONTAKT Instruments). I write scores for about 40–50 instruments, I also need more exotic ones like the Contrabass clarinet. Seems that I can forget NotePerformer, right? What would you go for in my case?
The RAM requirements for NotePerformer are much higher than the libraries’ own recommended specs because of how it operates. NotePerformer will load multiple instances of each instrument in the background, and some players (like Kontakt) are not optimized for this. So even though it may not be loading any new samples in an instance, it will still use more RAM.
That being said, if you want good playback out of the box without any setup investment, NotePerformer is still the best option. The built in sounds, while not as realistic as big sample libraries, are able to provide a nuance and “interpretation” that would otherwise require a lot of DAW programming. And if you go into the NPPE libraries with it, I would highly recommend VSL Synchron Prime. It runs with a very low footprint, offers a bit of flexibility, and mixes well with the stock NP sounds. It’s limited on the percussion, does not include any solo strings, and does not have contrabass clarinet, but you can scale it up as needed with the full-test Synchron instruments, which also run with a small footprint.
If you don’t mind building expression maps and a lot of tweaking, you can build your own maps for any library you want. So if you like SSO, you can find maps that someone else has already made (not sure if Spitfire provides an “official” one) or build your own template. Although, even without NP, I’m not confident that you’ll be able to load a 40-50 instrument orchestra with SSO on 24GB. The good news here is that Apple Silicon systems are very good at utilizing swap space on the SSD, so even if you go over your RAM limit, you’ll likely be able to work just fine to a certain extent. It’s worth a test.
I’m writing for real orchestras in the end and just looking for little more attractive previews to offer. I think it would be insane to spend thousands of Euros for a Mac with 64 or even 128 GB of RAM (plus the costs for the sound libraries and NotePerformer!) just for that reason, wouldn’t it?
I’m used to have no more than Garritan libraries plus the little “interpretation” that Finale did with human playback. Since Garritan is very outdated, I thought I could just switch to an up-to-date library and get much better results.
I’ve now downloaded NotePerformer, using the Trial with Iconica Sketch and I’ve not convinced be the result – actually I like Garritan with Finale better. I also don’t see that it’s that more “musical”.
Thank your for recommending VSL Synchron Prime. Seems to be worth to try, although it indeed lacks a couple of important instruments (e. g., also no e flat clarinet, and no saxophones at all! So I’d have to buy the “Studio Saxophones” for another 300€ + some more for the other instruments and then I can use that all together with NotePerformer, am I right?).
Since I come from Finale/Garritan, might I be satisfied with just using a good library like Spitfire without NotePerformer?
I went from Garritan to East / West Sounds Online and have not looked back. I also own Spitfire and keep coming back to East / West Opus. Best of luck.
Thank you, that one looks good – seems to contain Contrabass Clarinet, Eb-clarinet etc. (though no saxophones?) for the “Hollywood Orchestra”
NotePerformer unfortunately asks for at least 32 GB RAM (64 recommended) in that case. At least I have 1 TB internal SSD.
Well, theoretically I could still return my Mac mini and take one with 32 GB RAM instead (which is the maximum for the non-pro), but I’m not sure it’s worth that…
The VSL Synchron libraries have comparatively low RAM requirements—16 GB should be fine either with or without going through a NotePerformer NPPE. As well, VSL offers Dorico expression maps. I use Synchron Prime with a Mac mini M1 with 16 GB of RAM and it works like a charm.
I also write for real orchestras, so I think I understand what you’re after. I used Garritan for many years before switching to NotePerformer (back in its infancy, before the NPPE capabilities). I thought Garritan sounded better at first, but after spending time getting used to NP, I could not go back. I have received some very good feedback from conductors on the quality of my “perusal” mockups.
It’s also worth mentioning that I have used NotePerformer to create “patches” for commercial classical recordings with live orchestras. In most cases, it’s layering or replacing live instruments, but there have also been some instances where my mockup replaced entire sections of live orchestra. Of course, I can’t un-hear it in those recordings, but other (very accomplished) musicians have heard them without realizing… So I guess it works!
As for the cost, up to you. All I can say is that, for me, the investment has since paid for itself with the work generated and time saved.
Right now, NPPE does not support any saxophones for any library, so you would have to rely on the stock NP sax sounds or mix in other instruments/expression maps.
Spitfire Symphony Orchestra is a great classic orchestral library. I know they did a re-release somewhat recently, but I have some limited experience with the older version. From what I remember, the dynamics of articulations were very unbalanced and some things were recorded inconsistently. It’s one of those libraries that I bought on sale and then never ended up using because of its problems. Also, theres the issue that, since it was recorded in AIR, the baked-in reverb makes it a bit difficult to mix with other samples (like saxophones). Maybe these issues are improved with the new version of the library or by using Spitfire’s AIR reverb plugin.
MIgrated from Finale/GPO5 to dorico/BBCSO core, working on a concert overture now. the results are significantly better than my previous combo, so generally am quite satisfied with the output.
a) Using a professional up-to-date sound library (BBC, SSO, East/West or whatever) without NotePerformer
B) Using NotePerformer with a smaller sound library that requires less RAM
C) Returning my new Mac mini and spending 1000€ more for the Pro with 64 GB RAM
Against a) speaks that NotePerformer seems to give so much better results and good sound libraries alone, leaving the interpretation to Dorico alone, cannot keep up with it anymore (?).
Against b) speaks that NotePerformer doesn’t support saxophones and the smaller libraries don’t have crucial instruments like Eb clarinet, saxophones etc.
Against c) speaks that it’s a lot of money and still only the recommended minimum (!) of RAM.
The VSL libraries (like VSL Synchron Prime, and the full libraries available from that as upgrades) are nearly the only options that give satisfactory results out of the box being used directly without NotePerformer, due primarily to their agility and good balance and consistency of programming. It is actually possible to get results with these libraries that surpass NotePerformer’s playback with these libraries if you put some time into the shaping and do some additional mixing.
Most of the other options in my experience give rather poor results when used outside of NotePerformer unless a large amount of time is put in to fine tuning the performance. With these other libraries, the results out of the box will often be very unsatisfactory and require a fair bit of effort just to get things properly balanced to begin with.
NPPE takes care of all of that for you of course, but it may also be a consideration for you what libraries work better without it.
As a non-techie, and a former pro orchestral player, I find I use NotePerformer with Dorico for all my composing and I am more than happy with the result. You can easily forget it is not a real orchestra at times, and it is certainly good enough to use as a preview of how it could sound with real orchestras (I primarily write for large ensembles - often with choir - plus brass and wind bands.)
However, after years of struggling with a Windows 10 laptop (even though it was the best possible specification in its day), I have got completely fed up with the ASIO problems (thanks for all your help Ulf!) and multiple crashes, and am awaiting delivery of a MacBook Pro M4 Max 16" laptop with 64GB RAM and 2TB storage (16th December delivery, aagh). Although excited, I am wincing at the conversion of everything to Apple after being exclusively Windows for decades.
So, a chance to review my setup - would welcome your help.
I am too old to start learning post-production programs, tinkering with my output, and would resent spending time away from stuff I really need to do. However… there are a few sounds in NP that could certainly be improved. For example, I layer choirs with both “oohs” and “aahs” to add some beef to the sound. Also, the piano is not the greatest. I frequently use instruments such as D Trumpets, Eb Soprano Cornets, Contrabass Bassoons, saxophones, Eb Tenor Horns, etc.
So, given the RAM limitations (it was all I could afford) and my very limited budget, what additional cheap sounds could I use to supplement NP that is simple enough to operate for an old codger like me?
Would be grateful for your advice.
As much as I have a soft spot for GPO5, I find that Noteperformer (without controlling any additional orchestras) is usually far and away more realistic, more balanced; but it’s clear that ears are different.
However, I do normally use Noteperformer plus some GPO instruments – solo wind and brass, percussion, keyboards, harps, etc.
If I “Select All” in the BBCSO Core NPPE, it uses 15Gb of RAM, so 24Gb should not be a problem. You’ve still got 9Gb left for the OS and Dorico itself. People have managed to load 37Gb of sample instruments onto a 32Gb Mac, so it’s not as tight as it would appear!
Thanks for that. However, although not as much RAM as I’d like, 64GB should be enough to run things seamlessly.
Just wondered if, for a few hundred pounds, I could enrich my sounds to add to NP?
Any more ideas?
Thanks
Pete
You mentioned piano in your list. This may use up too much of your budget, since you also want some woodwinds and brass, but Pianoteq is a very nice…well, piano VST that uses physical modeling rather than samples, so it has negligible RAM footprint but places more CPU demand. One nice feature is that one can purchase specific starting models of grand pianos (though they’re all “tweak-able,” to an extent determined by the edition).
A significantly cheaper option for sample-based pianos is Boz Digital Labs Master Keys, though they’re limited to smaller-sized grands, which might not work as well for your needs.
My main machine has a fair amount of RAM. But recently I used my backup machine which has only 16GB, with NPPE and BBCSO / Hollywood Choirs / some Kontakt instances. Just strings from BBCSO, but even so I was amazed to find NP reporting use of 25GB of RAM and I got pretty near flawless playback.
I wouldn’t rule out NPPE with 32GB before having a go with the trial!
I’d be inclined to agree here. I don’t use NPPE with any VSL libraries and am perfectly happy with my own maps in this case. But for Cinematic Studio and BBC Core (which for me takes around 20-25Gb RAM so I’d advise certainly 32 to run it), NPPE makes life far easier and I’d love NPPE for the Chris Hein solo strings which aren’t the easiest to programme.