Remote Control of VST-Live via Midi / from external application

[SKO]

Dear VST-Live-Team,

currentl I am checking if I can use VST LIVE to replace my old VST Host Software within following frame conditions:

1. Management of sounds > 250 songs (incl. song-parts) via VST LIVE
2. Switch between different songs / parts via MIDI because Scores + Setlists are managed outsite of VST LIVE via Mobile Sheets Pro (MSP) whch is supporting MIDI commands
3. System with Windows 11 + VST LIVE 1.2.6 (for sound-management) + Mobile Sheets Pro (for scores + setlists) + LoopMidi (Virtual Midi Port)

From other tickets I already learned that I would neet to setup “static setlists” were I can place 128 songs each setlist. Therefor I would need 2 setlists to manage > 250 songs.

As well I learned that it is possible to switch songs within one setlist via midi programm change commands which is already working fine based on following configuration (menu devices, Actions & Shortcuts, chapter “project”):

Unfortunately it is not enough for me to changes songs via midi programm changes becauseI need to switch between 2 setlists and furthermore I song can include different parts.

Question:
Please can you try to explain to me which midi commands could be used to change from a part

Below please find an example structure of my setlist, song, part-structure.
How can I jump from Setlist 1, Song 1, Part 1 via midi command to Setlist 2, Song 2, Part 2?

Setlist 1
Song 1
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

. . . etc. . . .

Song 128
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Setlist 2
Song 1
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

. . . etc. . . .

Song 128
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Below please find an overview of midi-commands which are offered by my other software “mobil sheets pro” (management of songs / setlist + scores):

From my understanding the midi commend patch select would be maybe helpful to realize a midi mapping to select / change dedicated song-parts (e.g. from setlist 2, song 2, prat 1). Below please find a screenshot from my tool “mobile sheets pro” for the midi command “patch select”:

As far as I recognized VST LIVE offers a reduced choice of incomming midi commands which could be selected (e.g. a command “patch select” is not listed within VST LIVE:

Please can you give a short recommandation from your side?
If you see a chance for a direct midi mapping to select a specific part from a dedicated setlist, part this would be great. If possible please could you send a screenshot how the configuration @ VST LIVE should look like (menu devices, Actions & Shortcuts, chapter “project”)?

Thanks in advance for your support :-).

Kind regards
Sam

[musicullum]

@SKO

Management of sounds > 250 songs

There is the “Select Setlist” function (Devices/Actions and Shortcuts/Project). Would that help?

[musicullum]

MIDI Status lists all possible MIDI messages specified by the MIDI protocol. Your “MIDI Command” is actually the action itself. Currently, you will need 2 MIDI messages (official term), “Select Setlist” (only needed when a “bank” of 128 songs changes), and then “Select Song”.

[SKO]

Thanks for your fast feedback .
Yes, I already recognized that such features are existing.
But unfortunatly I do not know exactly what I should configure on detailed level (via menu devices, Actions & Shortcuts, chapter “project”):

Please can you provide example screenshot how the configuration at the screenshot above (see red boxes) should look like on detailed level?

I assume that you recommand to send a „midi control change“ to select a „select part“ or „select setlit“ is this correct?

It would be great if you please could write to me exactly which midi command I should send from my external application were I manage my setlists and scores (Mobile Sheets Pro). Below please find an screenshot for a „midi control change“ signal which I could send. Unfortunately I do not know exacty what I should configure in my external application „Mobile Sheets Pro“ as well:

I already scanned the manual for VST Live but unfortunately I was not able to find any detailed recommandations / examples (how to configure for this „actions & shortcuts“).

Sorry that I am asking such stupid questions but I scanned the hole manual document before and could not find any detailed recommandations / examples. I would recommand to add such example to your VST live manual then it would be also easy for other user which maybe have the same questions / frame conditions.

[fkalmus]

Hi! There is a button (Test MIDI Command) so open MIDI monitor View in VSTLive and see what is received from the external application, maybe you get more info what is going on.

[SKO]

Thank you this would be exactly the next step which I planned to do.
But it would be great if you please could help me what I should configure in the screenshot below in the red boxes:

[SKO]

Can you maybe do a configuration on your computer and send an example screenshot which works in your test envirounment successfully?

[fkalmus]

As far as I remember Jihem is controlling VSTLive to select from massive amount of songs remotely. My setlists are pre-defined, so I just hit PLAY, and generally song-end actions are set to “gotonextsongandwait”. Also I succesfully connected MIDI FADER for recording level changes, but that is another story again.

[musicullum]

Did you realize the “Learn” feature in Actions and Shortcuts? Select the row you want to program and operate your “MIDI Command” as you want to to get the desired outcome.

Note the difference between MIDI messages as defined by the MIDI protocol, and what your tool does to convert those into something else (“MIDI Command”). VST Live does not know anything about “MIDI Command”, it just receives raw MIDI, so you will have to refer to your converters’ manual to make it send specific MIDI Status, Channel, and data1 and/or data2 values. Or, just try the Learn function.

[Jihem]

Yes, I do! I’m using CC32 to select a Setlist and PC to activate a song (and launch it if Autoplay is set for this one song). My remote device is a Behringer FCB1010 improved with a UnO2 chip that demultiplicates the FCB features. For example, I can send a different MIDI message on a long press.

A FCB switch sends a CC21 that VL has learnt as “Song Start/Stop” action and another one sends a CC22 associated to “Cycle”. Both messages are on Channel 1 (lines 1 and 6).

For Setlist and Song selection, here are my settings (lines 9 and 10):

This would be nice to have a place on this forum for any of us to present their setup.

[SKO]

Thanks to Musicullum and to Jihem for your helpful input :-).

The example scrennshots from Jiham and Musicullum’s recommandation to use the „learn function“ was helpful for me to make some further little steps ahead to find a solution regarding „setlist selection“ via midi. According to Jiham’s example / explanation I tried to send midi CC32 („Control Change 32)“ into VST Live and double checked via learn function if the configuration table lookis identically to Jihams screenshot (focus on setlist selection). And yeah, now I have the same configuration line for setlist select like Jiham has in his example screenshot :-):

Furthermore I prepared in VST Live a test project with 4 different setlists where currentl setlist 4 is selected and which I now want to switch via midi:

In the next step I prepared via my externa app for scores und setlist control (Mobile sheets pro) a midi message to bet sent out to VST pro (midi CC32 to switch from setlist 1, 2, or 3 (currenty setlist 4 is selected). Below please find the screenshots from Mobile Sheets Pro (midi):

And the screenshot of the incomming Midi information at VST LIVE which shows the incomming midi information:

Unfortunately the Graphical user interface of VST Live shows the same setlist Numbeer 4 selected as before (no change):

@ Jiham please could you send a screenshot from your midi monitor which shows your incomming midi infomation to change a setlist? Do I maybe need to configure /activate some other topics to enable “setlist select” changes via incomming midi?

Thanks in advance for your great support

Sam

[musicullum]

The MIDI Channel might not match? Your tool appears to have no setting for that?
In VST Live actions, you have the MIDI channel restricted to “1” (both Chn From, and Chn To are 1). Try to set “Chn To” to 16, does that work? Also note that some programs count MIDI channels from 0 to 15, while others (incl. VST Live) count 1 thru 16.

[SKO]

Thanks Musicullum, for your analysis / recommandation.

Below please find my feedback / results to your topics:

Proposal 1 (from Musicullum)
The MIDI Channel might not match?
=> Feedback: The Midi input was shown in the VST LIVE midi monitor and automatically detected by „learn function“. Therefor I assume that the midi channel should not be the issue because otherwise the learn function would have selected this channel.

Proposal 2 (from Musicullum)
Your tool appears to have no setting for that?

=> Feedback: In my external app (Mobile Sheets Pro) alle midi information are automatically
send out automatically va channel 1. Below please find a configuration screenshot:

Proposal 3 (from Musicullum)
In VST Live actions, you have the MIDI channel restricted to “1” (both Chn From, and Chn To are 1).

=> Feedback: I changed the config from „1 to 1“ channel to „1 to 16 channel“:

Furthermore I did send 2 new test midi messages which were successfully shown in the midi monitor of VST LIVE (that means it successfully arrived at VST LIVE) but the setlist was not changed. Below please find some related screenshots:

Test step 1: Setlist 4 is selected before test messages are sent

Test step 2: 1st test message is created (Within external app Mobile Sheets Pro)

Incomming midi message at VST LIVE midi monitor:

Unfortunately No Change of Setlist selection (setlist 4 should be changed to setlist 1)

Proposal 4 (from Musicullum)
Try to set “Chn To” to 16, does that work? Also note that some programs count MIDI channels from 0 to 15, while others (incl. VST Live) count 1 thru 16.
=> Feedback: Midi channel changed to 15 and confirmed via „learn function“:

Screenshot of midi message:

However setlist NOT changed from setlit 4 to setlist 1

Musicullum, attached I uploaded my test file for you:
test project.zip (738.2 KB)

General questions from Sam (SKO):

Question 1. Would you maybe like to do a test within this test file on your computer (based on the uploded VST LIVE test file) which I uploaded for you above?

Question 2: Do you have any possibilities to simulate incomming midi input (like in the screenshots from my midi-monitor)? In case that my problem is based on a software bug this might way of work might be helpful).

Question 3: Can you maybe create a VST live test file with working “setlist selection” via Midi CC32 which you could upload within this ticket together with a screenshot of the “midi minitor” which shows exactly the incomming midi information?

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[Jihem]

@SKO

And yeah, now I have the same configuration line for setlist select like Jiham has in his example screenshot :-):

Not exactly. After I made this screenshot, a new column has been added to the right : Source.

Commonly, Source should be set to Data 2, unless the value you want to catch is the note number instead of velocity (for Note On/Note Off), or the CC number instead of its value (for Control Changes). I’m not sure if it works with Polyphonic Aftertouch (note number instead of pressure value).

This is probably a bit confusing for the one who doesn’t know the history of VL versions!

With the configuration you have now, VL is trying to activate the Setlist #33 (CC number+1), that it can’t find, obviously. You just have to change Data 1 to Data 2 in the Source column and write Jihem instead of Jiham and everything will be fine

[musicullum]

@Jihem

Commonly, Source should be set to Data 2

Exactly. If you want to control anything with a MIDI Controller Status, you will not want to change the default source (Data 2). In general, you are advised to not change parameters unless you know what those do, but most of all, if you do nevertheless to test something and it doesn’t work, you are even more advised to revert it to the default setting that it had before you changed it.

Other than that, we are here to help, but your list is quite long and it would be gret if you could try with setting Data 1 as source, and let us know what your remaiuning issues are, thanks.

[SKO]

Thanks Jihem + Musicullum for your feedback which was quite helpful for me to find what was my mistake. Now it works on my side to select a setlist via midi from external app :-).