Renders taking 2 - 3x real-time length

I can’t believe this has still not been fixed. I have Audio Montages with 10 tracks that have plugins on each track and the only way I can listen to the montage is to solo each track. Such a workflow killer.

PG - are you going to be addressing this at all ?

If you have no plugin, rendering is very fast. IOW, the bottleneck is your plugins’s processing time. What WaveLab can do?

I don’t think you understand the problem. When I am listening to a stereo track in an Audio Montage that has, say, 10 stereo tracks, all of them with plugins on them, those tracks that have no audio playing on them should have their plugins ignored, just like Cubase, Logic, etc.

The bottleneck is Wavelab not the plugins !

I think you’re getting confused by the title of this thread. The issue I am referring to came up halfway through the thread, here:

those tracks that have no audio playing on them should have their plugins ignored, just like Cubase, Logic

This feature is on the plugin side. That is, if there is silence (no audio), WaveLab tells the plugins. Then that is the responsibility of the plugin to bypass its processing.
Not all plugin support this VST-3 only feature.

I’m very surprised to hear that Wavelab already suspends processing for VST3 plugins when there is no audio, because I only use VST3 plugins yet I have this problem on every single Audio Montage project.

I use Waves, DMG Audio and Plugin Alliance plugins. How can I tell which plugins do not support this feature ?

WaveLab does not suspend processing: it tells the plugins “you can suspend your processing”.
But WaveLab has no way to know if a plugin supports this instruction. WaveLab passes the instruction, but there is no feedback from the plugin.

Following is what I found from testing in Wavelab a while back. The function to suspend VST3 is probably not very effective if you use 3rd party plugins with the Steinberg programs, because very few of the plugin makers support it. https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=250&t=124077

"
In Wavelab, these VST3 plugins suspend processing when no signal present:
Steinberg
Stillwell
Eiosis

These don’t:
Voxengo
Sonnox
Izotope
Waves
A.O.M.
DMG
Slate
Kazrog

I don’t know if this covers all plugins made by these plugin makers, but that’s what I found testing one plugin from each in Wavelab. So it’s certainly not a comprehensive test.
"

I think the suspend function is possibly more effective with 3rd party plugins in Logic and ProTools (not just VST3), not the Steinberg programs.
https://forum.juce.com/t/logic-disables-plugins-when-there-is-no-active-region/17570 . Thats just what I’ve heard though, don’t know it from fact or experience.

OK, thanks for that. And it confirms what I thought: if most plugins don’t support this VST3 feature it’s not really very useful.

PG - can’t Wavelab just suspend all plugins on any track that is not playing audio ? I mean why would the user even want plugins to be processing silence ? There’s no need for it.

However if you get different results in Wavelab and Cubase, using exactly the same files, plugins, plugin settings, number of tracks, and interface and buffer settings, that would be something to question. That’s what I was asking on the Cubase forum, but I don’t think anyone over there tested it in Cubase.

The difference in Logic vs Wavelab I could definitely see, but not Wavelab vs Cubase.

can’t Wavelab just suspend all plugins on any track that is not playing audio ?

It could. But this is a special case, which was considered rare so far: empty track with effects.


The track is not empty - it’s simply not playing at that point because audio is playing on another track. I agree empty tracks with effects would be rare, but the way in which I use Audio Montages (see attached screenshot) is surely not rare ?

@richardjay If I understand correctly, you’re using track affects as opposed to clip effects? With the way of working your screenshot shows, you might get better performance from WL changing to clip effects. With one clip on one track there’s no added advantage to track fx anyway.

Arjan is completely right.

This is a pretty inefficient way to lay out a montage from a CPU and visual standpoint. 99% of motanges I make have just two tracks and the clips alternate between the two tracks incase songs need to overlap or be really close.

Any “per song” FX are applied as clip FX which is.a great feature of WaveLab, and any global FX like the final limiter and dither are applied on the montage output FX section or some people use the global master section which I dislike but the result is basically the same.

Having that many montage audio tracks and track FX is sure to use too much CPU any way you slice it.


Thanks for the replies but there is a reason for working this way. Each track holds multiple versions of a composition (see new screenshot attached) which all need the same FX applied, so using Clip FX would not be a sensible way to work, from a workflow point of view.

Ah, that is interesting. I guess one other potential option for now is that once you have dialed in your Clip FX chain for one version of a composition, you can copy the entire Clip FX plugin chain and paste it to the additional clips on the same track.

It’s also a case for montage track playlists which I have been suggesting for WaveLab for a long time.

Thanks, yes I could do, but it become a real PITA to remember to copy any subsequent changes I do from the first Clip FX chain to the other chains on other versions. Track FX is a much simpler way of doing it, if only Wavelab wasn’t processing all plugins all the time, even on silent tracks !

I agree with you Richard. I think plugin makers should support suspend in VST-3. But it seems like many of them might prefer to disable it when they have a choice (with Pro Tools plugins), or leave it disabled in VST-3. Maybe Logic is the only program that does it 100% effectively, because they force it on globally, and the plugin makers don’t have a way to disable it in AU plugins? https://forum.juce.com/t/logic-disables-plugins-when-there-is-no-active-region/17570 That was my take on that thread anyway, if I understood it correctly.

From my understanding of what PG is saying, Wavelab already supports it 100%, without the option to globally turn off support, like in Cubase and Nuendo.

Maybe you could ask select plugin makers to enable support in VST-3.
If their reluctance is technical (like maybe they think their plugin possibly wouldn’t kick in quickly enough in all cases), I would ask if they don’t think problems like that would show up in their AU versions, if Logic basically forces compliance?

Steinberg is ok doing it with all their VST-3 plugins, apparently without problem?

Pro Tools is ok turning it on globally, for plugins that don’t flag it off, also apparently without problem?

Maybe my assumptions about why the plugin makers do this are not correct. I don’t really know how it all works. That’s just my take given my limited knowledge. But it seems to me it would be to the user’s benefit if they enabled VST-3 suspend support.

Does anyone know if you can deactivate plugins (not bypass), releasing them from processing, with automation in Cubase? Or with automation in any program?