I’ve been doing a lot of piano works lately and I’m wondering if there is any way to automatically get ritardando, rallentando and accelerando to display between the piano staves and not above?
It seems okay for solo piano but if there’s one or more singers/instruments that are accompanied it’s very easy to miss those especially if there are also chord symbols and lyrics. For now I’m moving them in Engrave Mode. But it feels very undoricoly.
2 Likes
You need to not use the tempo popover then. You can set them up as custom playing techniques (which I prefer), or staff text, or suffixes with dynamics (and then hide the dynamic).
Dear mikiworld,
I feel your pain, as I have been working on a lot of opera vocal scores and lieder, mélodies…
Fact is that notation is not supported in Dorico because it’s not considered as good habits (well, maybe I am excessive here) by Elaine Gould and the people who decide the standards.
I have come to the conclusion that they probably have a point, but then, when you want to reproduce some XIXth century notation, it becomes difficult, because the semantically-aware tools provided by Dorico do not comply with this “old” notation.
That’s why it feels undoricoish.
1 Like
Thanks @dankreider. That’s a better work around than mine.
@MarcLarcher: I don’t get how such a common practice can be considered a bad habit. I’ve been playing the piano for 25 years in many different musical styles and I would never expect tempo changes above the vocal staff… I’m really confused by this.
1 Like
There’s been plenty of discussion on this subject previously, and I seem to remember Daniel stating that the development team were exploring the possibility of giving options for tempi to be shown in italics, between or above individual staves. Nothing along those lines has been implemented yet, though.
Yes, we have no great philosophical objection to this convention – we just haven’t had a chance to implement it yet.
2 Likes
Dear Daniel,
Glad to read that (although I think I read what Leo refers to, and forgot about it…)
Keep safe !
Hi there! I was wondering if there’s been any progress on this matter? I’m just checking in to see if I still have to use some tweaks, or if there’s a more straightforward way to have rit. between staves? Thanks so much!
1 Like
Me, too! I’ve been playing piano – and (heavily) accompanying vocalists of every kind for over 61 years and this Dorico concept of placing the rit., rall. and accel. above the vocal line but not between the staves of the piano part is, in a word, wrong. Who makes these decisions? Some “notation” expert with a doctorate from Cambridge University? If one closes the “style guide” books and respects what all the great composers have written into their scores, one has to accept the norm as acceptable, too, whatever the “experts” are saying.
1 Like
Placing these markings between piano staves is simple; it’s just not automatic. Use SHIFT + X text with an appropriate paragraph style. One might even be able to set it all up as an expression to apply in one click or a custom popover.
True, that! And that is what I just did again this evening. First, I had a bit of a struggle hunting down the correct font to match the tempo marking – the default has changed recently – it’s in Layout: Edit Font Styles, under the letter “G” for “Gradual Tempo Text Font.” It’s also possible to enter a full-color print of the Mona Lisa in the center of the page, but wouldn’t it be nice if such a common-practice, genuine need for composers was simply made available? I started by using the “Properties” panel… How hard would it be to place some kind of button SOMEPLACE, placing a legitimate tempo marking – rather than an unrelated “text” that looks like a tempo indication – on the page where at least 50% of composers and performers prefer to see it? That said, I do appreciate all the options Dorico gives. It’s true, nearly anything – even placing the Mona Lisa at the center of your score – can be turned into a 1-click operation. I love Dorico!
1 Like
I’ve been working through these questions myself. Is it better to be faithful to the original print or do you make the changes based on what’s considered best practices.
I’ve landed on a hybrid approach where some of the less specific directions (i.e. “broadly” or “increase”) that could indicate some tempo fluctuation can be written as a “Playing Technique” and stick it in the middle of the piano staves. But specific directions (i.e. “rit.” “accel.” etc.) should go on top where all of the tempo markings live.
That decision feels better when I see combo directions like the “dim. and retard” one I came across yesterday.
Yikes – about that “dim & retard…” As a composer AND long-time professional performer, I find it difficult to believe that “…based on what’s considered best practices” can possibly apply to the concept of removing “rit.” & “accel.” from between the staves, where accompanists and pianists are used to seeing them – and, where particularly busy pianists are looking at a lot of notes they are trying to play accurately so that they may not have the luxury of always being able to scan to the top of the page to see all these subtle tempo indications ABOVE the vocal part. How is removing these from where they are easiest to see and respond to considered “best practice?” Before all the “experts” begin to argue with each other, we need to remember the cardinal rule of what good notation does: make it as easy as possible for the performer to play the music. The best practice has always been to place these indications BOTH above the vocal line and into the piano part. You wouldn’t (as I often see) place a fermata in one of the parts without adding that fermata into every other part – both staves in the case of a piano part. A “rit.” and an “accel.” are no less an indication of how quickly or slowly to play a given passage than a pile of fermatas. Leaving any part clean and clear of these indications – ANY professional will tell you – is another reason to stop a rehearsal to fix a mistake or to have these indications missed altogether. Before bothering with cautionary accidentals – also “unnecessary” technically – placing ritards, rallentandos and accelerandos where a pianists eyes are looking is far more important as a “best practice” for any practical musician or composer. What could possibly be the advantage otherwise? Would you call it “best practice” to remove all those redundant stoplights at a busy intersection, insisting there be only a single one in front of the center lane? The purpose of professional musical notation is to insure performances go smoothly and fewer mistakes are likely to happen by the people who have to read and play the music.
2 Likes
Hi,
I appreciate your enthusiastic comment here, but there’s a standard source for best practices for notation and engraving, and it’s Elaine Gould’s Behind Bars—and it justifies the reasoning for all of these decisions.
1 Like
As a pianist, I would also love to see the implementation of a project-wide engraving option to have gradual tempo markings be displayed between staves of a grand staff .
3 Likes
But Gould’s book completely ignores hundreds of years of use where gradual tempo markings are done in italics and placed between the staves of a grand staff in piano and organ music. Never in bold and, unless there’s a good reason to do so, never above the staff. I’ve been sight reading material that had bold tempo above the staff and stopped because I was confused as to what was going on.
1 Like
Hear, Hear!!!
(aarrrrghhhh) … while I’m familiar with the book, again, I’m also familiar with all the works of Beethoven, Brahms, Mendelssohn & Tchaikovsky… can we not give these composers a break and consider their contribution to music along with the excellent work contributed by Elaine Gould? I’m not sure how much time she has spent playing in orchestras and chamber ensembles, but those (we) people need to be considered, too. And we’re only asking for both options to be available. Coke AND Pepsi? Give we composers a choice? [I realize we can create our own shortcuts…] Elaine is only one person, thousands of composers throughout the ages have ALSO spoken… Do their opinions also count?
1 Like
We do plan to provide further options for the placement of tempo marks in future versions, but I can’t say when these might be added.
1 Like