When using the Fantom as a midi controller for VST instruments and / or for Fantom Sound based tracks (not using the Fantom Audio Interface) I have found that when I re-load a project some of the tracks are off pitch (all tracks were fine when project was originally saved). Sometimes it occurs on the VST tracks and sometimes on the Roland tracks. There is no visible change in the midi notes and no indication that the software or Fantom has detuned or in some way transposed the track … have even tried to tune the instrument back to the proper pitch but it never seems to quite get there.
In the case of Fantom based tracks, I have had some success by re-initializing the specific midi channel on the Fantom and re-loading the instrument pre-set. No success with reloading the VST (or any other VST) instruments on that track, however if I copy the midi info over to a new track everything works fine again during the session … even with Fantom as the midi controller. However when I reload the project the same or another track seems to be affected.
It happens even when I turn the Fantom on after the project has been loaded. It does not appear to happen if I have been using the Montage or Hydrosynth as the midi controller from the onset. I have noticed over time that Cubase and the Fantom seem to be fighting over control when in midi at times (other less annoying glitches). Have copied midi over to Studio 1 and Calkwalk and everything is fine, no similar issues when using the Fantom as the controller with either of these DAWs, so this seems to be specific to something between the Fantom and Cubase, and to make it doubly annoying it does not happen after every project re-load. No similar issues when working in audio only
If I switch the track to another controller (ie Montage) after the pitch change has taken place, it does not rectify the issue. The annoying thing here is I cant seem to identify the source of the pitch change either in the software or in the Fantom, my suspicions are with the Fantom but why can I not fix the track after it relinquishes control. Anybody else seen this issue. Any suggestion what is causing the pitch change (no Chord Arranger Track being utilized or specific scale being imposed on the track on the track)
Are you using the Fantom as an audio interface when you plug it in?
Just wondering if plugging it in mid-project could cause a sample rate change which mis-matches your project. Although I don’t know if that affects VST/MIDI instruments, as it’s something i’ve not had happen to me before.
It would affect audio events for sure though, but you say that audio events are ok? Which goes against this possibility.
Only other thing I can think of is if it’s sending a pitch bend message to a track and then leaves that track before the pitch bend is reset to 0 again? When it occurs maybe try moving the pitch bend up and down on that record enabled track to see if it resets the notes?
If that works, then you may have accidentally set all the Fantom’s ports in Cubase settings to be part of the ‘All’ MIDI Inputs group, you want to disable all of them other than the port that sends MIDI notes.
Certain DAW control ports can send pitch messages as part of their protocol, and I know the Fantom has some level of MCU mode.
No doubt it’ll be something completely different, but just throwing out some things to check really!
No not using the Fantom Audio Interface, everything audio seems to work fine when I do use it for my main Audio Interface.
I suppose it could be something to do with the pitch bend although it affects tracks and projects where no pitch bend has been utilized so I am not sure where it would get activated unless its in a Fantom setting. Worth giving it a try for sure didnt see anything in the midi data the showed anything pitch bend related, as you say at this point nothing wrong with eliminating things to try and get at the thing that is causing it … will give that a try
So where do I find this setting? or what specifically and where am I looking … in the Studio set up menu? The Fantom is in Fantom 6,7,8 setting most of the time for midi in and midi output modes
More I think of it you might be on to something, going to have a good go through the Fantom settings to see if there is anything on the Pitch or Pitch Bend setting that is off
Funny it looks like this coincidentally started after the last Cubase 13 update, was hoping Cubase 14 would eliminate the issue whatever it is
You need to go into Studio Setup, and then the MIDI Port setup section.
Within there you will see a list of your inputs and outputs, ensure that only ports that sends MIDI note data is selected in the ‘all’ column. It’s worth doing it for your Montage also, as they have multiple ports too.
Usually it’s called ‘MIDI 1’ or something on the end of it’s name.
Ensure that all other ports for the Fantom are excluded from the ‘all’ group. As this is the default group of MIDI ports that will record into a track channel, unless you specifically pick one for that channels MIDI input.
It’s whatever is in the ‘all’ group that could potentially affect your VSTs if you have included a port in there which is sending out controller information that Cubase interprets as pitch data accidentally.
Hard to tell yet, it didnt change anything on a currently affected project, but I wouldnt have expected it to as I pretty much have to copy the midi to a new track to return it to its normal pitch at least with a VST based track. The true test will be moving forward to see if the pitch changes continue to occur moving forward. Will create a new project using the Fantom as the primary controller and we will see whether I have any further issues. Currently been using the Montage but prefer the Fantom as it is 88 key and the other 61 keys. Per your recommendation also made the same modifications to the Montage midi ports, although never really had any issues between the Montage and Cubase they seem to work well together, no surprise there I guess.
Whatever the pitch change is being caused by got stored in some of my templates … so when I open a template a few of the tracks have the pitch change issue … so some type of information has been changed in the template that transfers to a new project even if I dont have the Fantom powered on
Once I got rid of that issue by replacing them with new tracks and saved a new project every thing was fine but once I started using the Fantom as a controller the pitch issue showed up on one of the tracks (this time on one I was using it to control a hardware synth). So after not being able to get it return back to its normal pitch by shutting the hardware synth off and on and trying to reinitialize the Fantom controller channel, I tried what @skijumptoes recommended and I ran the pitch bend wheel a few times and the track, to your credit and my amazement, went back to its normal pitch this time!
So I went back reloaded one of the affected templates that was controlling a VST and ran the pitch wheel a few times and it again fixed the pitch issue
So that seems to fix the pitch change but I am bit baffled why my template track would be affected when the Fantom is powered off, obviously something is being changed in the Track configuration and saved with it, have to play around with it a bit more and see if running the pitch wheel on the Montage will fix the problem as well. My current knowledge of MCU protocol is surface depth at best so troubleshooting the source of the issue so it doesnt do it any more is probably going to be difficult. I did just notice that I did not "uncheck the “In, All Midi Inputs” on the Fantom 6,7,8 Midi In Port … so maybe this will stop it from re-occurring
No re-occurrences in track pitch changes since I clicked off the “All midi inputs” for the various Fantom Input Settings
If I assign the Fantom as the midi input controller for the track that has the pitch change issues and move the pitch wheel back in forth, it returns the track back to its normal pitch
So as of this point it appears that a fix and prevention seem to a have been achieved
Ok weirdness continues with this, any song I made up with the Fantom involved, be it as a master for a VST or as a synth, has what appears to be random tracks that are continuing to go out of pitch when I re-load the project. As noted above the only way to rectify it is to go to each affected track … make sure that the Fantom is set as the input and then roll the pitch wheel a few times and it resets to its normal pitch. The strange thing here is not all Fantom tracks are affected.
To add a new wrinkle to this, when I decided to save a Fantom Scene for the project it almost immediately changed the pitch of several of the Fantom based tracks and several of the tracks which were generated by the MODX and Hydrosynth (Fantom was never used as a master for these tracks). In order to get the non-Fantom tracks that were affected back to their original pitch I have to set the Fantom as the master input for those tracks and roll the pitch wheel a few times … then change the input back to the hardware synth the track was originally generated on.
So while I can fix the problem I dont appear to be able to stop it from happening. Clearly the Fantom is sending some type of pitch change information to Cubase when I first open the project (and when I save a scene) which implys that there maybe a setting on the Fantom that is causing this … or I need to find away for Cubase to block this information on loading.
Hopefully somebody has some thoughts on what in the Fantom could be causing this … or at least how to block it from the Cubase side
R
The Fantom port you should use in the tracks is the 6-7-8. The DAW port (CTRL) should be kept out of the All MIDI Inputs, AND of any MIDI/Instrument track. I’ve been using the previous and current (EX) Fantom, with no conflicts with the pitchBend, the one which comes from the DAW Port as a volume control in the Mackie Setup.
Yes, I am using an EX as well, and the Fantom 6,7,8 is the port I am using (all others are off), but it still continues to do it … which makes me think I am missing something in the Fantom general settings … as noted above I never seem to have this issue until did the last Cubase 13 update … unfortunately its carried forward in Cubase 14 which I am currently running … its baffling … even more so that it is affecting my non-Fantom tracks
Hmm… yes and no to that. So I create a new project and things generally seem to be stable during the initial track generation. Exception to that lately was when I tried to save a Scene in the Fantom it almost immediately changed the pitch in some of the tracks after the scene was saved, not only the Fantom tracks but the non-Fantom hardware synth tracks as well (midi input was from their local keyboard not the Fantom). Additionally the tracks affected seem random in this case … not all the hardware synth tracks are affected and not all the Fantom tracks are affected, just some of them.
The more common situation seems to be when I re-load a project to continue to work on it, some of the tracks open with the pitch affected (again they seem random and generally in this case its some of the Fantom tracks that are affected, not the hardware synth tracks). Sometimes after I have fixed the occasional Fantom track it is affected again during the same session (although not as many as when I first re-load the project. This occurs even after I have saved it while I am working on it.
Simply closing the project and re-opening it does not fix it, I have to go to each affected track and use the pitch wheel. When I dont use the Fantom on the project there are no issues like this … so its definitely being driven by the Fantom in some manner (and its definitely not in DAW Ctrl mode). Its baffling and its random for the most part…When I am talking Fantom tracks its either sounds being generated by the Fantom or VST sounds where I have used the Fantom as the controller. The pitch controller has not been used in any of the Fantom tracks where this occurs.
Just for clarity, this does not happen with Studio One, Ableton or Calkewalk when using the Fantom … so this glitch seems specific to something in Cubase. Annoying as F@#k to be honest
I’ve never mentioned this mode, I’ve mentioned the port.
Again, nothing to do with the pitch wheel. I was talking about the midi messages sent from the DAW port.
Unfortunately, if both of the above are of no help, I’m sorry but I cannot think of something else, especially since everything is working as expected here. Perhaps another user would be more helpful.
