Room boom [solved]

Hi, this is a separate issue I have with a recent job that I described under the Mid-Side Lop-Side post (http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=49229). To summarise: a hand-held Zoom H2n is taped to the singer’s mic stand to pick up the acoustic quality of a male singer with acoustic guitar going through a small PA set some way back. There is a boomy resonance (as seems par for the course for this venue, and in any case it’s there so nothing can be done about it now) somewhere around 100-150Hz. It’s not there all the time - it’s just certain notes - but is spoiling an otherwise perfectly acceptable recording. Compromising might be a better description that spoiling.

The question is, what to do about it.

I tried EQing it out and that was okay but it needed to be quite severe and I wasn’t happy that it wasn’t taking too much out of the vocal.

So next I tried the MBC with all but the lower band bypassed. I’ve been varying the band between 150-200ish and fiddling with different attacks (1-25ms so far), threshold and ratio, I’ve even tried taking the gain slider on the graphic panel all the way out but that feels absurd, I must be losing more than I’m realising.

In short, I don’t feel I’ve hit on a combination where the bottom end feels controlled.

As you can probably tell, I’ve done very little work with live recording and I’d like to get this sorted by Sunday so I thought some advice was called for. Someone must have been here before so did you fix it and what did you do? Or just some general guidance about controlling standing waves with included plugs or freebies.

Cheers,
C

dont know if this will help ,find out what the note is and than find the frequency of the note on a frequency chart ,you should be able to find the exact note .if you open an instance of voxengo span you should be able to see the offending note/s pop up when they occur and chart where they are in the frequency range ,then automate an eq to only switch on when the offending notes happen ,dont leave the eq on all the time there is no point. hope it helps .

good advice from firestamper…was gonna say the same thing…Kevin

Behringer have an FBQ which does this automatically in hardware. (one of the few Behringer products I’ve seen in live venues, for controlling feedback. - I’ve got one in the Studio which forms a preprogrammed, (REW) tuned-to-room EQ on the monitor bus).
The plugin though is definitely the better way to go, especially for a recorded track

Know what you mean but there’s maybe 45 minutes of material so I’m wincing a bit. I know I said it’s not all the time but it’s there plenty. Still it’s a thought worth bearing in mind.

Interesting you and Kevin both went for EQ rather than MBC. Hmm. I know there’s plugins out there that do this but I wonder if I can rig it so that I can automate the EQ cutting in? I’ll have to go check the levels out I guess.

Well thanks for chipping in guys.

check out the new fab filter mbc , this could be exactly what you need , it’s a very powerful mbc at a good price http://www.fabfilter.com/products/pro-mb-multiband-compressor-plug-in

i havent realy done this before so i was just guessing what to do . but if the area you are wanting to correct is boosting by, for example +10 db when you get the feedback,then i would cut the eq by -10db at the feedback frequency area to cancel out the volume boost for starters. i dont use multi band compressors that much ,id just stick with an eq for this job cause the eq is just a volume boost or cut for any part of the eq spectrum .automating the eq isnt a problem.just press the W button on the eq of choice turn on the bypass buton on the eq and set the track going when you hear the feedback turn off the bypass so that the eq kicks in etc…when you`re finished turn off the W button and now press the R button to replay your automation you could then go to the main work area and if you look at the audio you should be able to see the problem areas , you could then show the automation by right clicking on the inspector and select “show selected track automation” you could then use the pencil tool to make the automation more precise . i fink ,good luck.

If the sound gets too thin when you engage the cut, try a slight boost with a wide Q
at some other low frequency that doesn’t exhibit the resonance at the same time.
So you might have to automate 2 bands of EQ.

Looks very interesting, I was tempted but at present £130+ is a bit much for me for this kind of job. Bear in mind that most people are listening through crappy speakers these days (like I was last night with no loss of enjoyment) and it makes me wonder why I don’t just slap a low cut on it and have done. Still, it looks like a much better bet than Steinberg’s, which I find could be easier use, so thanks for the pointer.

I admire your honesty :slight_smile: but you had at least one supporter so presumably onto something. Thanks also for reminding me there is an easier way to automate! I always draw stuff in.

Thank you, good thought.

I just remembered there’s a thing called dynamic eq, which seems to perfectly incorporate previous suggestions with my laziness. Had a look around and found this piece of DonationWare: http://www.platinumears.com/iq4gui.html

Seems to be doing some sort of a job but it will take a bit more listening at this end. In the meantime, I thought I’d offer it up for a general crit. Hope it works out, it’ll be just the thing.

[Edit] Initial results pretty encouraging, good enough for my purposes I suspect. I can even sit on that nastiness around 10k when he really gives the strings a twang, without emasculating the sound completely. In fact, I could get used to this. Pity there isn’t a 64-bit version.

Sorry, but that kind of content is not wanted here. You are out, firestamper.

Did you have any luck with getting any of your EQ sorted out on the boom side ?

Yes, I think so, thanks. The dynamic eq I mentioned above (http://www.platinumears.com/iq4gui.html) seems to have done a great job at not only sorting the boom but also some nastiness around 10k when he twangs the strings. It’s a cleaner job than I’ve ever managed with EQ or MBC and it was very easy to set up.

I’m not saying this particular plug does the best job but it’s good enough for me at the moment. There is an existing FR for this @ http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=182&t=35032 but it was getting ignored so I gave it a bump.

Spread the word…

that does look interesting , here was another possibility but again on the pricey side for a one of job . ive been waiting for reviews on this mixer eq http://www.bluecataudio.com/Products/Product_MB7Mixer/.

glad you manged to get somewhere near what you was after thou :wink:

Jeez (as in: :open_mouth: !), what will they come up with next? I’m glad I’m a user and not trying to stay in business out there…