Score Settings

I’m in score settings, staff mode, setting the note split point between treble and bass cleff in a piano layout.

I need a variable split point as both hands playing all over the piano in different octaves.

I don’t want to have a polyphonic stave as not writing for multiple voices/choir for instance.

It seems, after reading manual several times that polyphonic stave is the only option for a variable split point between the hands. But how do you vary it as it still remains set at one note…?
I have tried inserting by hand a note into the LH from the RH for instance , but it won’t stay there and keeps going back to the set split point

Am i missing something here?!

Yes, you have to use Polyphonic mode, but you need activate only one voice for the upper staff, and one voice for the lower staff. You can use the basic “Split Staff” as your starting point, before switching to polyphonic, then just move the notes, as necessary, over to the other voice.

Thanks vic

Will try it again later as you have explained…but i thought i did do that
I started by setting the split to C3, then switched to polyphonic and attempted to move an E4 which had been displayed in treble cleff to bass cleff. I deleted RH E, and tried to write it in LH and it kept landing back in RH.

Are there any step by step instructions on how to work a variable split point?

I would have thought in polyphonic you have for example 4 definite voices with fixed stem direction like SATB.
But in a piano score has variable notes in each hand…

Violet

You change its voice, not by simply dragging it, but by right-clicking on the note, and choosing “Move to Voice…”

Ok thank you! Will try that tomorrow

There are quite a few points that have taken me days and weeks to figure out. So appreciate the help on here!
I can’t seem to find any detailed video’s on cubase score, just overviews mostly

I am beginning to wonder if there are many Classical composers using cubase?
I have been told i can use cubase rewired with Sibelius…I’m thinking that might be better than the constant struggle with cubase score…

Violet

I’m sure you will see lots of contradicting opinions… personally I love Cubase Score. I agree that in many areas it can be quite cumbersome, but, for me all that is outweighed by the fact that it is so completely integrated into this wonderful DAW (whose other MIDI functions are, IMHO, without equal)… and sometimes I’m not against getting the Key Editor to help out where the Score Editor might take longer. And I can promise you that it can render excellent results :wink:. (in other words… don’t give up on it yet :wink: )
The documentation is in fact very good… I’d recommend reading especially from pg. 771 onwards (“Staff Settings”), and, in this particular case, pg.779 and onwards (polyphonic voicing)… it is far more versatile than just “4 definite voices with fixed stem direction like SATB” :wink:.

I gotta chime in here too. I am a big fan of Cubase Score.

While Cubase might not be a notation publishing tool on the level of the big two programs, for composing and editing midi based music, Finale and Sibelius are no equal to Cubase Score Edit– especially with the recent additions of the Chord editing tools and the Context filters in Logical Edit.

One very small example- in Cubase’s Logical Editor you can select chord tones (in the same part) based on their interval or, based on their pitch order from lowest to highest. You can specify parameters, such as the beat they fall on, whether they occur in a certain passage (using the Transport locators) and so on. (e.g., all minor 3rds that fall on the 2nd beat; the second highest note in bars 9 through 16 and so on)

Cubase is extremely fluid in the way the user interacts with the program. One can can add, insert select, move and otherwise manipulate notes using several methods. And, as my friend Vic points out, if you can’t do it in Score, you can switch to Key Edit and work there- the selections are in sync.

While the learning curve might be a bit steep, if you write music manually, that’s to say, not using algorithmic tools that write it for you or provide random ideas or “assistance,” Cubase is wonderful, and its flexibility is unparalleled by any program I’ve seen.

Though it might not be for everyone…

Hopefully you will have the time to dig in.

I’d also encourage you to take the time to get comfortable with the Score editor. I’ve used Cubase as a DAW for many many years but only had a need to use the Score Editor starting a couple of years ago. It took awhile to get my head around how it works and is integrated with the DAW functions. The manual offers clear explanations for various elements of the editor works. But it falls a bit short on explaining the why aspect. For example it describes how the different layers work but doesn’t give much info on how to think about and approach the concept of layers. But you will also find these forums useful in learning the Score Editor - both from searching (a lot of questions are already answered) and asking questions. Both Steve and Vic are incredibly generous in answering both basic and complex questions.

Vic is right about using the Key (and even List) Editor in conjunction with the Score. For example to variably split the piano notes between staffs like you want, in the Score Editor I set the staff to polyphonic. Then I want the right hand to used midi channel 1 and the left midi channel 3. For me the easiest way to do that is open the part(s) in the Key Editor because you can visually see and select more notes at the same time in the Key Ed rather than the score. By default (changeable of course) you’ll find all all the notes initially set to midi channel 1. Just select all the notes you want in the left hand and in the editor’s info line change them all to channel 3. Then in the Score Ed you’ll see they’ve all moved to the lower staff.

Comparing the Score Ed to Sibelius or Finale remember they are different tools for different purposes. S&F are essentially publishing layout tools optimized for musical notation, at their core more similar to Adobe offerings than Cubase. In addition to their visual core they also provide for very basic midi playback of your score. Cubase on the other hand provides very sophisticated midi tools & playback and also provides Score capabilities that are more than adequate for most day-to-day needs. If you were putting together a score for commercial publication, you’d probably want Sibelius or Finale. But Cubase can print out pages that are fine to hand out to your band or choir and it is capable of producing a much better audio mockup of your piece. Additionally you can also do magical things like record someone singing a vocal part, convert it to midi and then print that out as a score.

Thanks everyone for your detailed thoughts, very helpful for me.
I will stick with it for a while as my score submitted for the deadline yesterday looked better than the one a week before!
I was successful in the piano part layout - did the settings initially in split mode, then changed to polyphonic and used the variable split preset. Any notes that needed stave swapping were then manually put in the correct voice.

Having used score intensely for the last few months i think there could be a few improvements. I will go into detail if a score suggestions list comes up, which i think someone has spoken about on the forum.

On a basic level it would have been helpful to have more algorithms for initial use, until it becomes more familiar. Making the score look presentable has been a huge task…and i’m still only part way there. The manual is good, but i found it too fragmented in my search for how to do common score tasks. Most of my time has been searching around all the separate bits of information in an attempt to make sense of how to do a simple thing. It is very much geared to users with significant prior technical know-how and can therefore already synergise the info together!

Violet

Yes, but, by doing as you are, you will soon be one of those people yourself :wink:.

Hehe! :astonished:

I do need to get scores to a publishing standard soon, but from what i gather there is no one software that has the midi processing power and integration as cubase plus the professional look of a sibelius score…

That’s why i am interested in ReWire between the two. Does anyone on here work with cubase and ReWire with sibelius??

Not a rewire guy myself. But I suspect the easiest thing to do would be to get it sounding like you want in Cubase, export the midi and then import it into Sibelius. You can also export a Cubase score as a musicXML file which Sibelius can import. However Cubase’s musicXML can be a bit funky.

Also without knowing your time constraints, you might consider waiting on buying Sibelius if you haven’t already. About 2 years ago Steinberg hired the entire Sibelius development team after Avid foolishly let them go thinking they could do it on the cheap outsourcing the development. They are working on a new notation program from the ground up without any legacy constraints. Many anticipate this will become the best notation program out there when it’s released (especially since Avid seems adept at ruining products).
http://blog.steinberg.net/

Perhaps you could list the key features you believe you need from Sibelius that you don’t see Cubase providing and folks can confirm if it really isn’t possible in Cubase. Once you get a feel for Cubase Score it is not as cumbersome as it initially seems. Maybe Vic or Steve could post an image how professional looking a score they are able to generate.

Thanks raino.
I did start off on this with another topic seeing how i could work between the two and was told about xml files and importing etc

However when i investigated it further on the Sibelius site, they specifically mentioned ReWire…which i took to mean being able to use cubase midi parts to generate a Sibelius score - which would be perfect, but have not checked this out yet.

You would have thought Sibelius was big and rich enough to continue to pay for the best team of developers?!

I will generate a list meanwhile - for me it is mostly about being able to do things quickly and instinctively and the default score looking ok without the endless re-sizing etc. For example, how do i get the stave names placed to the left of the cleff not to get cut off the actual page without resizing the whole score…?
Even my early Musescore parts ( a freebie ) can do this and the names automatically move the system in slightly to accommodate the name…

but thanks for the tip-off about waiting

Violet