Segue playback

I am trying to create a Segue structure in Dorico 4. I can get the visual result I want, but I’m wondering if there’s a way to get playback to work properly. Here’s what I’m doing:

A section: Basically and 8-bar phrase. On the first pass, there is a 2-bar elongation. On the second pass, this is only 1 bar;
followed by
B section

A close-repeat at the end of the B section refers back to the open-repeat at the beginning of the A section

Using 1st and 2nd endings at the end of the A section, I’ve replaced the end-repeat barline closing the 1st ending with a double-barline, and added the system text Segue B in Repeat Marker Jump text.

The structure is:

|: A → 1st ending (2-bar phrase) → B:|
A → 2nd ending (1-bar phrase) → B || → on to C

The playback is not playing as I would want (expected, since, at present, Segue is not a recognized repeat marking [Feature Request]. Here’s what I get (and it’s even odder than I expect):

A → both Segues (endings) → B
A → 2nd Segue only → B
After the second pass of B, playback jumps back to the beginning of the Intro, rather than continuing to C as expected.

I don’t seem to have the ability to select either of the 2 Segues (endings) independently.

I’d love to see a working Segue object in future versions of Dorico. It would live in the Repeat section, and one could select it and in the Properties panel one could choose a Rehearsal Mark to jump to.

Thanks for listening!

If I understand what you’re after, does the attached play back as you expect?

repeat-structure.dorico (546.9 KB)

Thanks, Daniel. No, it doesn’t, though you’ve done something which makes me think what I’m looking for might be possible.

I want to close-repeat at the end of the 1st ending to be replaced with a double barline. After the 1st ending, playback would jump to B (rather than returning to the beginning of A). After B, playback would jump to the beginning of A, and on the second pass, playback would only play ending 2, then go to B. Make sense? I’ve modified your file to show what I’m talking about.
repeat-structure.dorico (933.9 KB)

I’m trying to get around having to write the whole second verse as it’s own section just because it is 1 bar shorter, if that makes sense.

Right, so you want it to play:

– Bars 1-10 (intro + A)
– Bars 3-8 (A for the second time)
– Bars 11-13 (B)
– Bars 3-8 (B for the first time)
– Bars 11-end (B for the second time, then C)

Unfortunately you can’t play this kind of structure with the tools currently provided. You will need to forgive my ignorance, but I’m not familiar with the term “segue” being used to mean “jump from here to somewhere else” – I interpret this as more like the term “attacca”, i.e. play continuously from here to the next number/movement/piece. Can you explain a little more about how players reading this kind of music would understand that “Segue B” presented without a repeat barline should make them jump back to the start of A?

thanks, Daniel, but you’re still not getting me.

-Bars 1-10 (Intro + A + 1st ending of A)
-Bars 12-13 (B)
-Bars 3-9 (A2) + bar 11 (2nd ending of A)
-Bars 12-13 (B2)
-Bar 14 and on (C)

I’ve asked around about this a lot, and have gotten many different answers, but using a Segue has been the most common. If there is a more standard way to notate this structure, I’m all ears.

Otherwise, I don’t see how to use an internal repeat, meaning I have to notate A2 as its own verse because of one bar. Damn those arrangers! Can’t they just keep it simple? :wink:

Would this be a workable solution to what you are trying to do? (see attached pic. and project)

Make the 1st time ending 3 bars long (from the original bar 10 plus the 2 bars of B).
The 2nd time ending would include the original bar 11 plus the 2 bars of B written out again.
Then letter C.

If necessary (to match up with the original bar numbers), the bar numbering can be altered in Properties.

repeat-structure ed.dorico (757.2 KB)

@stevenjones01 That would be a workable solution, except that the B section I’m working with is actually 12 bars long. Im creating a lead sheet, so the goal is to keep the score as short and concise as possible. Since B2 is exactly the same as B1, it would be nice to avoid all of those systems on the page.

How about this?
It’s a little bit non-standard, but I have seen it a few times in published editions.
Those editions have sometimes had strategically-placed text alerting the player that the 1st- and 2nd-time endings do NOT have a repeat sign at that point, and things like “play 1st time through” in the 1st-time ending, and similarly appropriate text for the 2nd-time ending.

repeat-structure ed2.dorico (772.3 KB)

PS I think that playback will probably not be what you want.

I think you mean this…

(That B and B2 contain the same music is irrelevant)

@stevejones01 You basically came up with the same solution I did, except the language I used under the first “ending” was ‘Segue B,’ indicating a jump to the B section. Cheers!

@Janus Well, I’m not sure I agree with “That B and B2 contain the same music is irrelevant” We have repeat devices to make the structure of a piece of music more evident and concise. Otherwise, if the fact that the two sections are identical was truly irrelevant, then we would dispense with repeats all together and just write everything out.

You specifically required Playback to work. And your B section is only 2 bars long, so the layout cost of showing that section twice is negligible. Over the centuries many works have been published with written out repeats.

@Janus Thank you, you are right. The playback on your solution would work perfectly. I failed to take that into account.

As I mentioned in my dialogue with @stevenjones01 , my B section is actually 12 bars long.

Thanks for your input!