Show/Hide staff labels: Not intuitive

As a non power user I find myself struggling with a simple thing as staff labels – although I know I used to know how to do this (i.e. switching off staff names).

– In Layout mode, I go to Layout option > staves > staff labels and I find a bazillion of options regarding staff labels, but not a simple on/off switch for the labels themselves

– I cannot click the staff labels to have options displayed (properties panel)

– I don’t see anything in the properties panel related to the names when selecting a stave

– In Setup, I can tweak the names, but don’t find the related function either… sigh

There are no properties for staff labels because they cannot be selected. The simple on/off switch is indeed on the Staves and Systems page of Layout Options: the first two options at the top of the page are on/off switches for showing them on the first and subsequent systems.

You can also show or hide staff labels (short or long) from any System or Frame Break. Select the System Break or Frame Break and you’ll see the relevant properties appear in the bottom panel.

Of course this Is dependent on there being a Break in place - you can always add one (even where the system naturally breaks).

Hi Eddo!
There is no “simple switch” because that thing is complex. But you’ll find that the first two options in Layout options>Staves and Systems, set to None, should be what you need.

You can tweak the staff systems in Setup mode, left panel. Click on the chevron next (left) to the player name to expand its card, and there, hovering on the instrument name, you’ll see a new chevron that opens a contextual menu. You’ll find Edit Names there.

There is nothing about staff labels in the properties panel. But you should explore the paragraph styles (in Engrave mode), you’ll find interesting stuff in the Staff label paragraph.

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Oh wow – so many reactions while I was typing my answer to Daniel – what a forum!

Thank you guys!

My reply to Daniel somehow got lost? I can’t see it. Never mind.

All in all it was something like “Can’t wait to use D more regularly once guitar notation is implemented” and "shouldn’t staff names also be displayed in Layout > Layout options (if that’s the menu entry name – I’m on the German version).

Thanks again et merci beaucoup for your very prompt replies!

I don’t understand your request… Staff names are in Layout options>Staves and Systems, and I find this very logical. It’s something that depends on layouts — you might want a different behavior of the staff labels on full score and on parts.

Hello Marc,

I got a reply and a solution to my question, so everything is fine now.
As far as intuitive approach of the software is concerned, I think some of the options should be redundant. I see no point in having an option to hide/display names in Setup mode > Layout options, but not in Layout mode > Layout options under “staff labels”. I was searching the entire menu entry and found it hard to understand to not find the switches there.

Psychologically spoken: If you use Setup mode, you already know what you want before you start to write. In Layout mode, you do things you haven’t thought of before, or better, you react to what you have already written. It seems logical to me that this implies having a certain set of commands redundant, based on “use case” (e.g. use case “planning & defining” vs use case “perfecting my work”).
I’m aware though that this might add to the complexity of the software… still more menu items… and where do you stop?…

Thanks again for taking your time to answer to my post!

There’s only one Layout Options dialog, and it’s accessible from any mode - I believe Ctrl/Cmd+Shift+L is the default shortcut.

Given you can access it at any point in the composing/engraving process, do you still think there’s a need for extra dialogs?

Eddo, The English version of your “Layout mode” is called Engrave mode.

The Layout Options and Engrave Options do different things.

Engrave Options / Staff Labels controls the formatting and positioning of the labels for the whole project IF they are displayed. If does not say anything about WHEN they should be displayed in the score.

Setup Mode / Layout Options, and the property you can set on System Breaks, say WHEN the labels should be displayed, and this can be different for each layout in the project. For example you usually want labels displayed in the full score, but not in the parts.

Dear Eddo,
My fellow Dorician forumers have answered better than I could. Point here is you will benefit from learning how this tool is meant to be used (and I think there has been very efficient thinking behind this) rather than fighting it. Rob descriptions are very explanatory on the interesting aspect of why this or that option is where it is, depending on the target it aims.

Cher Marc,
Dear all,

Thank you for clarifying and answering my questions!
My posts are not meant to “fight” anything, they are meant to be a documentation of my initial struggle with a quick and dirty (re-) use of the software. I’m convinced once I’ve come to use it exclusively and to have got some routine, my questions will appear naive to me. Yet I think it is important to give feedback on issues like the one I had.
If I could suggest something (ah well, I can :slight_smile: , I’d rather the staff names were selectable and hide-able via e.g. a context menu – which echoes the corresponding menu item in Setup > Layout. It is plain immediate, a user like me don’t has to browse the manual or search or molest the forum :wink: , and it feels absolutely natural to click the thing in question and do something with it. Right-clicking to the left of a staff without a name would open the same context menu, because you want the name at that spot…
Great for guys who don’t like to plan a lot but who need to open the software from time to time to write some quick studies for the kids… ah yes, that’s me.

Just a thought.

Thanks again!

Agreed, I just spent 30 minutes combing the menus, and then looking in help, then the forums, finally to find this.

There is no such thing as Layout mode…
Layout options are accessible from anywhere in the program (Shift-cmd-L) and the way the staves are labeled is Layout-dependant (at least for the settings that you fi d in these options).
I have the feeling that this is not very clear in your mind. The consistency of what is document-dependant (Engraving options), Layout dependant (Layout options) and Flow-dependant (Notation options) makes it really easier for the user to find the correct setting, once this has been properly understood. Hope it helps!

Marc, you did realize you replied to an older post of mine that was used for quotation, did you :wink:

No, I did not realize, and you do well in pointing this! My apologies for this useless post!

No need to apologize – better you answer once too often than not at all. So, thanks for answering and bonne journée!