Slurs, Ties, and Condensing

Dorico
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1

I’ve run into a curious issue where I cannot condense horns 3&4 when horn 3 is tied and horn 4 is slurred. See the picture below:

Horns Condensing
Horns Condensing578×196 9.18 KB

This is how it appears when condensed. I can do a manual condensing change, but then the tie is eliminated and all we see is the top voice with a tie, and then two bottom notes unslurred. Is this a setting that I’m missing somewhere, or is it not currently possible to condense slurred and tied notes over measures?

I’ve included a project snippet below for someone to play with.

Horns condensing example.dorico (3.1 MB)

If this indeed isn’t possible I’m hoping it’s a change that can be made in a future release. Dorico continues to amaze me at all the many things it can do…and also at some of the simpler things that it falls on it’s face with. I know comparing it to Finale is apple and oranges, but there are times I really miss the flexibility of Finale.

2

I didn’t know Finale had a condensing function.
If you are talking about manual condensing, yes you can do this in Dorico too, of course.

3

I’ve attached your file with some changes.

I added a slur to the Hn 3 part and then used the Custom Scale property and reduced it to 1% - effectively invisible.

This means the condensed staff will show the slur because both instruments have it. Plus, you won’t see the slur in the Hn 3 Layout (NB this is with a Manual Condensing Change).

Horns condensing example v2.dorico (3.1 MB)

1 Like
4

Finale didn’t. But what you were able to write both parts on one staff and then have the part manager select the bottom note for it to generate separate parts for players. It wasn’t perfect, but it worked well, and there were never any random condensing issues.

None the less, Finale is the dead horse now, so no use in beating it. I’m pretty happy with Dorico, just learning it’s quirks.

5

Interesting. So you still have to manually condense because the note values are different, correct? (Dorico treats ties as one note, not two connected). I will play with this idea. There should be a way to hide the slur completely if this is the only solution.

6

Correct.

I’m not sure that it’s a good idea to be able to hide slurs but I don’t think they should just disappear as in your case. Maybe this is something that can be considered in the future.

7

A “dummy” slur is not needed…

insert a manual condensing change for horn 3 and 4 - both in the up-stem voice.

Example:

Horn 3 & 4
Horn 3 & 41066×354 27.3 KB

8

I tried that - well, I thought I did.

9

Yeah, I did try it:

Screenshot 2024-11-23 at 10.32.33 AM
Screenshot 2024-11-23 at 10.32.33 AM1920×1320 118 KB

Screenshot 2024-11-23 at 10.32.15 AM
Screenshot 2024-11-23 at 10.32.15 AM1920×1320 175 KB

What version of Dorico are you on?

And can you attach a saved version of that file?

10

I end up with the same result as Daniel, could you walk me through what you are doing to get this to work?

11

I checked it again and found something interesting - there was a slur added to the Horn 3 part - but placed correctly in the condensed staff (Horn 4 voice).

I think this is either a bug, or a “feature not implemented yet”…?

After I did the manual condensing on the stem-up voice, I saw there was no slur on the Horn 4 notes - same as stated in posts above. So with condensing still on, I added a slur to the Horn 4 notes in Write mode by first clicking on the B-natural, then highlighting the slur button, then clicking again on the B-natural. Then I posted the screen shot.

A slur appears - perfectly lined up on the Horn 4 voice in the condensed score (the screen shot I posted earlier), but in the Horn 3 part there is now a new slur on the tied G. The Horn 4 part is untouched. I didn’t notice the slur in the Horn 3 part when I made my original post…

As DanielMuzMurray indicated above, if the custom scale of that slur is reduced to 1% in the part, it becomes invisible - So I guess that’s still the work around for your issue.

My original post was unfortunately misleading… I did add a slur, not to the Horn 3 part, but to the Horn 4 notes in the condensed staff, then discovered the new slur is actually visible (attached to?) in the Horn 3 part.

Is something in the manual condensing setup forcing the slur to be visible in the Horn 3 part, but perfectly placed in the Horn 4 voice on the condensed staff? Why would Dorico attach a slur to a tie chain if it considers tie chains to be one note? This is where I’m thinking “bug”…

Finally - I tried adding a slur to the tied G in the Horn 3 staff and Dorico would not let it appear. If this is the rule - it shouldn’t attach to a tie chain when condensing is on either… or am I missing something?

(Mac - Ventura, Dorico 5.1.70.2200)

Here’s the file I edited - showing the slur on the tied G in the Horn 3 part, and on the Horn 4 voice in the condensed staff (score):
Horns condensing example.dorico (3.1 MB)

12

One could also flip the stem direction and set the Horizontal Offset to zero in Engrave mode.