Hi!
There is such a situation. The track is connected to the layer via a virtual MIDI channel, and when the solo is enabled on the track, the mute is enabled on the layer, making the solo useless. If it is declared that layers and tracks are different structures, then the solo and muting of tracks should be independent of the solo and muting of layers. Perhaps because of this connection and remain arbitrarily turned on muting on layers.
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In addition. I tried to get around this situation. I turned on the solo on the output channel of the mixer, hoping that only the channel would work. The mute was set on the linked tracks and layers. And then it got even more interesting: after removing the solo from the mixer, the mute fragments remained on all the layers in the parts. This is how uncontrollable mutes appear. I believe that the mixer, tracks, and layers should be separate to avoid such complex situations. If the track is muted, the signal will not go to either the layer or the mixer.
Thus, the simple task of exporting a single midi track to an audio file has turned into a problem that I have been trying to solve for an hour, but all my attempts have resulted in a blockage. The last resort is to break the chain and export the track directly to the output.
I use a virtual channel because there is a strict correspondence between one track and one layer. I need to connect a track with multiple layers in one part or in different parts. But this is not the only reason, and it happens in other cases as well.
Sometimes it turns into a disaster for the user. Today, I wanted to export a file to an audio track, and it seemed like the operation should take no more than five minutes. I put an S on the track, set markers, and exported the file. What did I get? A file with no sound and mutes that remained scattered across all the layers even after removing the S on the track. I had 15 minutes before rehearsal, and I spent the time looking for these mutes in all the song’s layers and manually turning them off.
I am sure that the M and S controls on the tracks should not affect the layers or the mixer.
A VST Live Virtual MIDI or Virtual Audio connection is a “cable” between the Virtual MIDI Device (or Virtual Audio Device) and the receiver (or transmitter). These work exactly like real devices, which means when setting the Track to Solo, the Layer should be muted as much as everything else that is not connected to the Track in the Mixer.
While that is a good point, Layers do have Channels just like Tracks. Connections and Solo handling take place in the mixer. If you’d use the designated Layer/Track connection, the Layer is not muted because of that specific interconnection.
We’ll check if we can trace virtual connections for Solo, but it’s rather complex to connect things that are supposed to be seperated, like when you connect a MIDI track to an external MIDI Instrument which is fed by a Layer; if you mute the Track, the Layer doesn’t know (and shouldn’t know) that it is involved.
You’re contradicting yourself. If a virtual MIDI channel is a wire, then turning off one device shouldn’t turn off the other. Have you ever seen a performer’s microphone or synthesizer turn off all other musicians or equipment on stage, which is exactly what happens?
Track - is the performer
Layer is the instrument
The mixer… it is clear.
We want one performer to sing, so we ask the others to be quiet, but we don’t turn off the console or the speakers, and we don’t turn off the switches on all the guitars and synthesizers.
And this is exactly what happens. All the equipment turns off, and when it’s time to sing, we start looking for the switches that were turned off. This is further complicated by the fact that in real life, we have one guitar or synthesizer per song, but here they are in every part and will turn off ‘M’ in every part.
The second question is, I need one pianist (in our case, a track) to play one instrument with the left hand and another instrument with the right hand, but I can only connect one layer to the track, and not just to a part of the song, but to the entire song. I want this musician to switch presets between parts, but I can’t connect the track to layers in multiple parts. What should I do with dozens of tracks and layers?
I can’t attach the layers directly to the keyboard, because the first note of a part can play a preset from the previous part, and when I play notes before the bar but associated with this bar, they play the layer of the previous part. I have to make tracks, run the keyboard through them, and use the monitoring controls to adjust the midi output, but there are problems as described above, and the only way to resolve them is through virtual MIDI channels.
Sorry, but I see conceptual inconsistencies in the program’s structure that are actually very annoying, and which can be easily fixed in future versions. If you’re interested, I can write about it. Currently, musicians (like me) need to ensure that when they interact with the some of control elements, there are no surprises that can be fixed by either restoring the project for a long time or reloading the project. These situations put the program’s usability on the line. There are about a dozen of them in the program, but they make real-time work extremely challenging, even compared to Cubase, which has almost none of them.
I encountered this problem in a new capacity. Turning on the solo again led to multiple mute switches, but after turning off the solo, the mutes remained scattered throughout the song, and turning off the mutes caused the solo to turn on. Each new switch resulted in a different combination, until I manually turned off all the mutes on the layers and tracks. (During this time, the band patiently waited for me.)
I believe that when connecting tracks, layers, and lanes on the console, there can be so many different combinations that it is difficult to predict their interactions. If this happens at a live concert, the musician will not be thinking about the music, but about what might happen with each next move.
The audio track is connected to the output through the “Minus” group, and there are multiple layers in the song. I only need to output the audio track. I enable Solo on the audio track and export the audio track to the file. The resulting file has no sound, and its length matches the length of the song. “Solo” enables Mute on all layers. When I disable Solo on the audio track, the “mute” remains enabled on all layers throughout the song. Even worse, I manually set mute on the layers some time ago. It is now impossible to tell what was previously set manually and what was automatically enabled when the solo was turned on.
This is not the first time this has happened during a rehearsal. When I play the song, I find that there are many muted layers because the solo mode was once set on the track or mixer. Instead of playing my part, I have to disable these muted layers on the fly. I don’t know how I’m going to perform this at a concert. My friends are wondering when I’ll stop experimenting with this software, as unexpected surprises are constantly popping up, putting the entire band’s performance at risk.
There’s no way to quickly disable everything, and the general control buttons are only available on the track page, so you have to go there on the fly. I have to disable it there and come back. How do I get so much time and hands?
I’m sure that as long as the solo and mute modes are connected between layers, tracks, and the mixer, it’s impossible to resolve this issue, as there are countless combinations that can lead to new problems. The “it’s a little better now” approach doesn’t work here, as a single situation like this can crash an entire song during a concert and cause significant stress for both the keyboardist and the band.
your project has many combinations. Therefore we need every detail to resolve the issue. Can you help us somehow? Can you reproduce the problem?
The “Global Solo” and “Global Mute” controls are available as an Action. Check the “Project” category in the “File / Actions and Shortcuts …”. Create a Shortcut and it should help you.
The source of the problem is that the three objects (tracks, layers, and mixing channels) in which solo and mute are switched are essentially independent of each other. A track is a timeline, a layer is a device in a certain part, and the mixing channel works either as part of the entire song or even as part of the entire project. The automatic activation of the mutes takes place outside the field of view. The mutes on the layers can be enabled manually before pressing the S in the tracks. There may be many initial combinations, the shutdown tracking algorithm will be complex, and to make it reliable, you need to take into account all possible combinations, and they may be unexpected given that layers can be tied to each other and even through virtual midi ports.
There is a proposal on how to do it simply and reliably. It is only necessary that the layers have their own interaction between S and M exclusively within the parts where these layers are present. The tracks have their own interaction, the mixer channels have their own.
If the solo of a track turns off the mutes on other tracks, then other tracks will not be played, regardless of what happens on the mixer and on the layers. Of course, a person can start playing the instrument manually, but I don’t think the automation should limit the person. If I put S on a layer and a track is linked to it. then when other layers are disabled, the tracks that are playing through other layers will also be disabled. If I put S on a mixer, then I will be able to mute all other channels on the mixer. There may be some nuances in this setup, but they are much easier to deal with than searching through all layers, tracks, and channels to find the source of the problem, which may no longer exist because it was disabled.
The most important thing is that in the proposed option, the inclusion and exclusion occurs in one scope and the musician can be sure that nothing has happened outside of it and there are no surprises waiting for him there.
If the idea seems radical and it can affect those users who are already working, you can make a choice in the settings.
Yeah I’ve seen that happen a lot of times and the behaviour is like this going back to V1. Never reported it but I avoid solo button like the pleauge just for this very same reason.
Just solo some track in mid-transport let it move to some other part then un-solo and see all hell break loose on layers
I have no ideal suggestions on what should be a better action to do for solo-mute. But for my use I only use solo for checking out a backing track. So if solo only worked on tracks conetext I wouldn’t mind.
We work with any program in the same way that we are used to working with many others. With a lot of experience with Cubase, I needed to do one simple thing - export an audio track to a file. I did what I would do in any other program. I clicked on Solo, made sure that the other tracks were disabled, and exported the file. After exporting, I discovered that the file had no sound at all. When I came to the rehearsal and started playing, I got into a very unpleasant situation, and I didn’t see that the layers had been disabled, I couldn’t even imagine it.
There are a lot of errors in the program, and we can’t adapt to its whims as much as we need to. These issues need to be fixed, as they are critical. While it’s possible to cope with the challenges of project preparation, the problems that arise during live performances are more significant.
And one more question? What is the reason to switch off layers while track in solo mode?
Layers are not only for automatic playback. For example, I want to play manually with track in solo mode.
You have a mixer where people do a lot of complex adjustments, routings etc. And if you are in mixer view when you solo something, you want everything else in the mixer to be muted which includes layers, stacks, tracks and what not. You might be checking some random noise coming from a channel and trying to identify it on soundcheck is a one good use that I come up with…
At the same time you want these adjustments to be per part basis as well. (Guitar solo part lets raise the volume and add some more reverb for the next 8 bars type..)
I did a little bit more testing on this and solo works differently. Unlike mute, solo acts like global and not part based. You cannot solo a layer in one part and un solo in another. But when you un solo it acts like it is part based somehow. I don’t know really what is happening but clearly it is not working as intended and needs to be looked at
For the time being I just use mute and avoid solo, it is not like I have 100s of tracks like a proper recording. It’s just a few more clicks.
Each object type can completely mute excess sound in Solo mode based on its purpose:
If I set Solo on the mixer, then no track or layer or another source that doesn’t belong to that channel will be played. I don’t need to touch the tracks or layers to do this.
If I set Solo on a track, I usually want to disable all other playback, but why disable the layers? Tracks or live musicians can play through them manually. We’ve disabled the unnecessary tracks, and we can ask the musicians not to play.
If I set Solo on a layer, I want to mute that particular layer (instrument or source of sound), regardless of the musician, the track, or the signal from virtual channel playing it.
(By the way, if I want to turn off the lights in my room, I don’t need to turn off the entire house or the entire city. )
When layers, tracks, and mixer channels are linked by Solo and Mute commands, there is an excessive interdependence that can limit the musician’s actions on one hand and lead to strange combinations that are difficult to predict on the other.
This can lead to various situations, such as the track being routed to a virtual channel, where multiple layers receive signals and pass them on to the next layers, and so on.
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