Song states

Cantabile Performer has it (Song and Rack States - Cantabile - Software for Performing Musicians), Live Professor has it ( [Snapshot Automation], VST Live doesn’t want it so far…

Can’t there be a way of saving plugin configuration states only instead of saving the whole plugin as a (new) part in VST Live when one becomes duplicated (but not shared)?
Of course it’s nice that VST Live is also saving complete states with the VST instance. But when I only change a parameter on the plugin it so much consumes memory saving the whole plugin (with its (small) changes) again as a new state/part. Why can’t VST Live get a feature like the other apps do that only save the small parameter differences into states/parts instead the whole plugin again?

See here, till automation (which means also an initial setup automation) vst live automation - #4 by musicullum. Maybe it sounds complicated, but in fact it’s really easy when you get used to work this way.

  • menu “Sound”
  • media bay “Sounds”

This way, however, VST Live still is saving the whole VST again with each part that I create, right?

It saves the content. What do you expect? It does not apply this to other instances, only this one.

I’d like only settings are being saved… not VST instances over and over in every part I create (and only change slight differences like the volume or parameters of the VSTi)

plugins expose either parameters or a complete state or both.
We don’t know what a plugin does, or what has changed or anything the like. If your parameter changes are accessible via Quick Controls, you can just record those. Other than that, how should this even work?

I don’t understand that.
You can copy/paste, or load/save Sounds, or drag/drop to the media bay. Nothing is changed in any Part when you save a Sound.
You can drag a saved Sound onto a Layer which already has a plugin. Sounds are stored in a file, not in a Part.
I still don’t quite get what you want to acheive?

Hi musicullum.
Please see the manual for Cantabile Performer (Song and Rack States - Cantabile - Software for Performing Musicians) and check out the many configuration options for states. In Cantabile (everything is described on that site that I just mentioned) you can select what kind of behaviors should be saved within a state (e. g. solo, mute controls…). Transferring this to VST Live it would mean I could specify certain buttons/behaviors/plugin changes that become saved or not saved for a part.
So far I cannot configure anything in VST Live what should be saved or not saved within a Part what makes VST Live pretty unflexible…
The other advantage of this “state behavior” technology is that only these things become saved within a state or in VST Live within a part that the user wants to have saved.
So many menu items, plugin changes can be made and Cantabile Perfomer only saves these things to a state/part that the user wants to have saved. This is saving tons of CPU and memory and makes the workflow much more intuitive I think.
Would like seeing exactly the same functionality in VST Live and being able to define what shall be saved within a part and what not. Especially I don’t want to the plugin to be saved and be loaded again (inside the project) when there is only small change to the plugin or even no change at all…
It is making project so huge when for each part the plugin becomes loaded and saved again, especially when only something inside the layer has changed like the volume or solo, mute buttons, etc…
I would like being able to define the state behaviors that are offered to be definable in Cantabile Performer in VST Live as well…
Do you better understand me now?

I don’t think so.

First, to repeat, plugins are blackboxes which follow the protocol. A plugin reports its internal state to the host to save and restore it. Not doing so is calling for trouble.
Maximum you could get is to purge the instance entirely and by option only save changes to those parameters available via Quick Controls. User would have to set this individually for each plugin, which is quite a stretch imho.

Secondly, just run “File/Preload” and check how much memory plugin states of all plugins consume, as saved by the plugin itself - that includes those parameters you suggest to save only. Is it any significant?

Third, the plugin instance itself will be loaded into memory, and that is more concerning with some plugins. For the majority, it is not significant either. Only saving parameters would not help without a purge of the plugin anyway.

And fourth, no inactive plugin consumes any CPU whatsoever, unless activated either globally (then you need it anyway), or by Part, or Song.

I don’t understand what you mean by “load the plugin”.
A plugin consists of two parts, for one, the code (“dll”) which needs to be loaded for the plugin to do anything, and secondly, its state (parameters, internal storage etc). VST Live keeps a plugin loaded all the time, it does not need to be re-loaded. That is what a purge function would do, to entirely remove the plugin, and entirely re-load it when referenced again.

You probably mean the plugin state. Again, check to see how much that really is.

In VST Live, a plugin state is not saved or loaded either (except with file operations), as plugins simply keep their state at any time. Shrinking the memory for a plugin state by only saving parameter changes (which are accessible by the host via “Quick Controls”) will not make much of a difference. If the memory display of the “Preload” functions indicates something different, please let us know.

Hi musicullum,

I’ve tried it out.

This doesn’t show me any memory being used (neither the preload function does)…
When duplicating layers still volume or pan changes are not working correctly in layers (when the CONTROLS tab is set to AUDIO in the layer)…

Concerning the Quick Controls: The Learn function is not working. I cannot select any plugin parameter and map it to a Quick Control:

Also, when clicking on the CC, the window with the available and searchable plugin CCs sometimes disappears or displays on weird positions on my screen…

Furthermore, when I make changes to any knob of a shared layer, the changes are not saved to the part. Instead they become changed to all parts what makes the idea of changing plugin CCs and save it to a part and save memory by not using plugins several times for different parts unefficient…

Would like that the above described problems are being solved…

Also I still prefer the idea of Cantabile Performer that it is possible to select what kind of parameters should be saved with a part. Thus the user is able to define exactly what he wants to restore or recall when selecting another part.

In VST Live so far either everything gets saved with the part (volume, pan, VST state, transpose, zones…) but it cannot be configured individually what the user needs for each part… I would prefer a lot if VST Live could become such an individual configuration option so that it will become possible to select individually for each part which parameters of VST Live should be saved and therefore be recalled and which ones shouldn’t.
Also I would like to be at least able save Quick Control changes to a duplicated layer for each part individually. Better I would like, however, having this set of options that would allow me to individually set what kind of parameters I would like to save for each part - same as Cantabile Performer offers… Even on my old Yamaha keyboard I was able to define for each registation memory what things I want to save and be restored when pressing a registration number on the keyboard. So I think VST Live really should become this feature…

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Mine does (preload, preload Parts not tested). Make sure to have the latest release at
This is one of a heavier project. Takes some time to preload.


12 MB is negligible for such a big project.

That is actually true for Quick Controls. The fix did not make it into todays version, sorry. Next version.

The ones you mention are Layer controls, not plugin parameters. And Layer controls are saved with the Part regardless of shared or not.

What exactly do you mean by that? Is this about Layer controls, or plugin “parameters” or both? As said before, some plugins do provide access to parameters (those available for Quick Controls), some save parameters individually, some only save and load bulks of data. The VST 3 interface allows for either. Given that memory consumption is neglegible, and nobody else asks for it, storing/restoring each single change for each single plugin will also eat memory, and takes time and work to implement.
You can also save QC values to a track to recall for any global or shared Layer or Stack; admittedly, that won’t work until said bug is fixed.

Ok. I just would like being able to define what should become saved to a part/song and what not…
E. g. if I want the volume state to be saved, I would like being able to define to save the volume, as it is possible in Cantabile if you see the documentation…
Sometimes you want the volume or a parameter to be recalled when you select a part, sometimes you don’t. That VST Live just saves everything and recalls everything isn’t really a good solution in my opinion. If you check the link above to the Cantabile State documentation again maybe you could become a bit inspired of what kind of parameters could be saved and what not… I think for VST Live it was good if users could define the things being saved too. You don’t agree?
If possible I would also like being able to define the Quick Control/plugin parameters to be saved and recalled if that’s possible. I’m not using tracks so far so would be nice if it was possible to define that these things are being saved with parts or not…

It’s complicated, you have to set up to define what should be saved and what to be ignored; and it only appears to make sense if you can define that for every object (Layer, Stack etc).
Not saying that it might fit one or the others’ approaches, but we like to keep it simple. You can save/load and drag/drop to Media Bay presets to restore exactly what you want. Then you can change whatever you like and get back to a defined state at any time.

One thing I can imagine is, that I can save and reload the mixer settings. As on different locations (home, rehersal) I have to adjust the out channels to the given harware/location/monitoring. But as this are only 3 channels and I remember the settings, it is not that afford. Maybe this are more channels and locations for other users.