Currently, I am working on Scriabin’s Préludes. With the first Prélude, I immediately wondered how to achieve this notation in Dorico. So far, without success.
Mathematically speaking, the division is simple: one quintuplet of quavers per half note. The clou is that the quintuplets are split between the bars.
How can I realize such rhythms in Dorico? My best attempt so far is to start the quintuplets on the first beat, but I can’t manage to insert the correct rest of a half note (or two quarter notes) in the left hand because Dorico insists on the quintuplet pattern.
The next step would be a rhythm from measure 8, where the half rest is substituted with a triplet of quarter notes. But I think once I have a solution for part 1, this step won’t be difficult.
I don’t know what the best approach is, but I think my core question would be: how can I split a quintuplet across bars at will? I have found some discussions in this forum, but none that help me with this.
Just by looking at the sheet music, it doesn’t seem complicated. But creating this in Dorico apparently isn’t so trivial
Maybe one drastic possibility could be to use the line tool to make fake bar lines? Dorico will turn the big quintuplet into two small quintuplets as I’m sure you have discovered. That notation is super convenient and “correct’”, but it’s not what you’re looking for.
I think I got it to work. A nice challenge to start my morning. Start a project without any pickup bars. Enter the 5:4 tuplet at the first beat. Then choose the 3rd 8th note, shift-b and add a bar line. Then beam together the 5 notes. Then copy/paste as needed throughout the piece. Then use the lock duration to go back and put the correct pitches in. For the LH rests I copied the tuplet with notes, then selected each note, one by one and deleted each single note. I then had to use force duration to make the rests the way the original has them. For the triplet quarter notes, enter as you would any quarter note triplet. Remove the tuplet signs and I think you’re good to go.
You can considerably reduce the overall tediousness by first creating two really large/long 5:4 tuplets (one for each stave) that cover basically the whole piece (you will have to employ some basic arithmetic for planning that out), which you hide. Then just sprinkle in the remaining nested tuplets where needed.
I would also probably go with an anacrusis-less 2/2 metre signature, filling in the subsequent barlines as open time signatures (once you have two in the right positions, you can easily expand with the r key).
Rereading this, I realise it is stupid advice. Just re-enter a 2/2 time signature at the third note, then hide it; voila: automatic barlines at within-tuplets positions.
I do not know what happens later in the piece, but my solution for the passage quoted is to make straight eighth notes the pulse and work around them. scriabinSolution.dorico (519.5 KB)
My solution is primarily based on @Alexander_Ploetz’s suggestion. I entered the quintuplets and managed to insert a 2/2 time signature at the third note. I was aware of the feature allowing the free entry of time signatures, but it never occurred to me to use it in this context—brilliant! This method also made it simple to create the 5-vs-3 figure in the last bar.
@Derrek, I considered your solution as well, and it served as a solid backup plan. However, I was particularly interested in seeing if Dorico could produce a “correct” version.
@FredGUnn, while your solution initially looks good, it is mathematically incorrect because the second rest aligns perfectly with the A note, whereas it should fall between the A and G notes. I apologize for being so meticulous. Additionally, I still wouldn’t know how to create the 5-vs-3 motif using your technique. I would be interested to hear how you might handle this.
Tangential to @es560’s Dorico question, but I’m curious: are there editions in which the 5 of the quintuplets is shown, at least early on? Looks…“odd” without them.
I realize this sort of notational elision is common in simple cases like, for example, triplets (“hello, Brahms…”), but given the challenge of offsetting the quintuplets across barlines, Scriabin’s notation almost begs to be put in the category of “Old Complexity.”
I agree. A more recent version from Henle does provide some more details: Henle Scriabin Op. 11 Nr. 1
(This is from the Henle webpage and can be viewed officially. Please remove or let me know if I posted this link against some rules.)
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