Start point glue for audio events - Why is this wrong for DAWs and OK for tape machines?

[jrose]

@MattiasNYC Thanks for your really good reply.

@MattiasNYC

Not really. If you’re cutting 24-track analog tape you’re cutting all tracks at the same time

But your " Not really" is pointless, if you would have read thoroughly:

@jrose

because we have to use all tracks as a whole.

You are saying exactly the same thing with different words . Congratulations.

But I want to concentrate on the facts!

@MattiasNYC

because there is always an increase in amplitude of transients the point that matters can’t be at the very start of the event,

Exactly! The musical important information never sits at the start point of a clip/ audio event.

@MattiasNYC

It looks to me as if you want the option to set a “start” point for each event and have Cubase treat that new point the way it currently treats the start of the event.

YES. And Cubase already did some small movements to this direction by inventing a snap point feature for audio events. But the realization is not, what it should be… 90% missing.
And Yes, taking always the start point for syncing is, in a musically sense, wrong. This definition forces erratic behavior in Cubase right now, look at my post here:

The complete snap marker "S","R"... a massive improvement for audio parts, -events and -groups!

I think it’s good that we agree in this point. I hope Steinberg will read this! I have heard of that, but in the early days for me it was always set to the starting point. *) I don’t have any experience with Cubase 9, 11, 13 - I’m using Cubase 12 and 14 on a Mac now. I never used PC’s very often - So this may be a version and platform dependent issue. And Yes, this issue solved has to be a prerequisite for my ideas. So, back to the topic: An audio event should always lock to the “importan…

@MattiasNYC

But as long as the “offset” we currently have is consistent throughout the timeline and across tracks the current way of working still works fine, everything is delayed by an equal amount

You got, what I want to say, but not bringing it to the final ending here.
Because the offset is not equal! (look at the picture of the transients - different!)
So it is working some “kinda fine” - I agree, but here I want to talk about improvements and a vision and not preservation of something. This feature could be a step ahead to other DAWs in my opinion.

@MattiasNYC

once everything is lined up. If y

OK. I line up every thing in Cubase to the sample start, and it looks fine so far, then I change the song tempo, and as a result every reversed sample ist misaligned now. This is what sample start alignment/start point glue means! We urgently need a clear definition and musically right use of a marker for alignment - that’s what I want to do here! @Steinberg (for free
And I called this new snap point “glue point” for differentiation.
And as a free gift, Steinberg could think about making Cubase more content oriented and smarter for musical content! @Steinberg

@MattiasNYC

quantize literally on the transient and thereby cut off the start of the waveform because the event start moves later (to the transient) then you can always add that back using a macro to extend and crossfade, I would think.

It don’t has to be that complicated, that anchor “glue point” for this wave event only helps to move musical information to the grid and hold it there, the audio itself is still the same but start lets say before musical “one” or 1.1.000 (So we only need some “Tape” before “one” ). It’s that easy. But maybe, you was thinking of a special use case?
edit: now I got you … X-fade between eg. 2 loops is one possible solution here, but this should be handled by Cubase automatically as a suggestion.

@MattiasNYC

“Glue” is probably not the best word to use, it’s a bit confusing.

Naming is always a thing. Any suggestions. Mine was “glue point” or “groove anchor” may be also good.
Functionality resumed is:
It helps to set and lock an audio event (audio group) in the grid or groove of a song even after a groove or tempo change like an anchor. It belongs to tempo matching audio and auto adjust, but also works without “musical” mode. It is a “hit point”. And should work as an “master warp marker” (to help having even warped audio locked and connected to a song groove and vice versa). It only can sit on musical time frames defined by tempo and time signature (or subframes of that).

So it also will have benefits, when using loops - eg. start point don’t need to be the important lock for loops any more.

note:
I just say here: there is room for a lot of improvement even for fundamental, basic functionality of DAWs in general. But today, it seems, we are concentrating more on gimmicks and show room before quality.