Forget I said that - I’m running on no sleep and got my signals crossed. Must have been thinking about how my old Mackie 1604 “mixer” had silk-screened 8-bank labels for the ADAT channels (now THAT’s an old school control surface! LOL) . I have NO idea how my brain translated that to the control protocol - unless it grabbed onto the fact that you often have to work in banks of 8 channels with control surfaces. Sorry - need sleep! 
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We all get sleep deprived from time to time.
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New kid on the block from SSL: UF1
Rounding out the channel strip and fader controllers with a transport panel with single fader strip.
This looks intriguing…
I got the PreSonus FaderPort 8 8-channel Production Controller - so far so good…s
700 bucks for a single fader? To me it looks like it’ll only make sense for anyone using SSL plugins with it. Using it just as a controller it seems overpriced.
Yes, if you just need a single fader for Nuendo, for $199 you can get the X-Touch One or the Fader Port. Even build quality probably wouldn’t make up for the difference.
But if you are using the rest of their controllers or using some of their plugins, then it makes sense and is inline with the overall system.
Their plugins are quite good and affordable as a subscription. My only issue is that they’re all stereo only. So great for some projects, not as applicable in film post or immersive/surround mixes.
I agree, if you’re using their plugins it makes sense. It also looks nice hooking it up with the rest of their stuff. Of course with a fader bank of 8 faders the price is all of a sudden up at 2,000 and at that point it’s a fair chunk of money. I’d think going Eucon is better then.
The Presonus is MSRP OF $499 for 8 faders. Also comes 16…s
It’s not just about the price or the faders, but how they’re mapped, the secondary parts, and how that fits your workflow. Higher-up in this thread some of this ground has been covered.
I had very bad experiences with Eucon and Avid surfaces. Some of which may have been unique to my setup. I’ve been on an SSL UC1 and UF8 for 2 years now and really like how it integrates into Nuendo an my workflow. But there is a lot of personal preference in that. It’s little details like the 1-8 buttons which are mapped to different track configurations that allow me to switch rapidly between my DX, FX, VCA tracks. Or things like being able to flip the fader with the knob, so if I do some pan animation I can ride the fader for that instead of twisting a knob.
The UC1 has appeal because it puts the basic EQ and dynamics onto a tactile controller with dedicated positions. I’ve never had any luck or got used to mapping various plugins to the knobs above, like you do on the Artist Mix. Most plugins these days have too many parameters and you have to endlessly page around which you can’t develop muscle memory for and end up much faster with the mouse for then anyway.
Not trying to convince anyone here. Just stating my own experience and preferences I have developed. All these surfaces are a thing you have to try out to see how it feels, like a pair of shoes. There is no good way of judging this from a web post or YouTube video. It’s layout, mapping, and also how the fader feels. Some of the Avid faders are super cheap (on the dock in particular), and I don’t care for touch screens in this workflow as much (where most of the Avid surfaces seem to be headed with the control app). But again, personal preference.
Depending on what you work on, and how you work, the SSL360 mixer is worth a look. It’s simplified as it doesn’t support other plugins, send or automation in the UI. But having a single screen with 40+ tracks with channel strips and dynamics as you might have in a physical console can be an interesting workflow for some projects. It’s a different view and force you to look a the fundamentals rather than all our fancy tools. If you combine the SSL360 with UC1 and UF1 you have a full multi-track console with tactile control of the EQ, dynamics plus hardware transport control. So if you fancy a big board, but don’t have the office space, this gets nice and close. Of course more suitable to music work than DX editing. Waves tried something like that with one of their plugins but it was still clunky.
I just got myself a 49" super ultrawide monitor and am enjoying being able to see a lot of stuff on my screen and navigating there. Just need a few things to be tactile for when I’m working fast or riding automation lanes.
PS: Here’s some more detail on how the UF1 maps to Cubase/Nuendo: SSL UF1 - Cubase Setup & Tutorial - YouTube
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My UF1 was delivered on Thursday and when paired with the UF8 and UC1, it becomes a powerful system. I have an Avid S1 at the office, but I prefer my SSL over that for many of the reasons mentioned above.
If you play in their ecosystem, then it’s a rewarding user experience.
tg
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Just chiming in about the Mackie MCU Pro
It can be switched between Mackie Control ( Nuendo ) , HUI ( Protools ) and Logic Control by power cycling and holding a button on the unit down. Used to do it all the time on mine. Can’t remember which button anymore! It’s in the docs though. I only use Nuendo now.
Custom key assignments ( function buttons ) are handled in the host software afaik.
Mine is over 10 years old and going strong… though it has the footprint of a desktop mixer which isn’t ideal for some types of work.
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I went with a Presonus Faderport 16 after many years with a couple of Mackies. Works very well with everything, so much more well designed and efficient than the old bulky Mackies. Otherwise: how about an updated & slick Steinberg Houston? A mini Nuage?
I have the fader port 8 - so far so good. Would love to get rid of the old mackie it is a dinosaur lol
Have you see the brand new Yamaha DM7 series?
They include DAW control. I don’t know how deep it is, but you can add an extra control surface with jog and other features, mainly for DAW control.
Yamaha DM2000 includes very deep DAW control for Nuendo, if they have developed this control into the new DM7 with their amazing touch displays it could be a great surface-interface like DM2000 was (and still runs).
Could this be the alternative to Nuage?
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Come on Yamaha, you’re so close! A small controller for Nuendo would be awesome.
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Not exactly cheap. Going for $15-30K depending on the model. And quite the footprint, including height. There are two distinct use cases (well 2.5). You either work mostly on the console and go back to the box rarely, or you work mostly in the box and rely on a controller for tactile inputs and frequent tasks where muscle memory speeds things up.
The dividing factor is how your desk is setup. Do you have an ergonomic in-the-box / computer setup with a controller that fits within those physical constraints, or do you sit at the console and have a somewhat awkward computer configuration that’s good enough for the occasional detail, but not practical for things that require longer stretches of detailed work.
Some of these consoles seem to be kind of in-between. Not enough DAW control that you can make them the primary solution, and too big to keep them around to augment in the box workflows. Some of that of course depends on if you just mix or also do things like DX Edit (you could set up two separate systems for that), what plugins you use and how well they map to the console, etc.
And some of that also changes as our project setups change. If you’re mostly in stereo mixes, things are relatively flexible. If you work with wider buses or Atmos, I imagine the mileage varies significantly and/or the consoles don’t keep up as quickly with every development.
While I like my SSL controllers for my workflow, as well as their plugins - they come primarily from a music world, and are all stereo only. They don’t work on 5.1, or 7.1.4 buses.
Ok, it’s not cheap as it’s not a toy. But I wonder what are you getting for those 15k-30k comparing with Nuage prices. DM7 includes so much hardware that Nuage devices are ridiculous. Fader, enconders, touch displays… if you get the side controller also the same jog wheel than Nuage. In addition you get high CPU processes, input, outpus, plug-ins, Dante interface…
I know the number of target customers is not the same, but I find Nuage is very over-cost comparing the hardware you get with DM7 or even DM2000.
Yamaha could develope a new brand control surfaces to cover a wide range of DAW projects as AVID does with costs similar to AVID but deeper implementation with Nuendo.
I think that unfortunately there are some unescapable problems they’re facing.
First of all, if we imagine it’s pretty much exactly the same as an Avid s1 then why would I buy the Yamaha instead of the s1? The s1 has Eucon which Pro Tools has and the Yamaha device probably wouldn’t have that. So why not just get the s1 and have deeper access to more DAWs including Pro Tools?
Secondly, if we imagine that it has deeper integration with Nuendo then the questions become a) what is it that you currently can’t do with Eucon that you want to do (i.e. in software), and b) how much more are you willing to pay for more tactile controls on the controller (i.e. hardware)?
With those considerations I’m just not sure how profitable it really is for Yamaha / Steinberg to develop something, mass produce, ship and sell it, and support it for at least a decade. As I mentioned in another recent thread these topics come up pretty regularly and the problem is always that users always think the device is ‘obvious’ in how it should be designed yet they always want something slightly different, and the pricing is always “a lot more for quite a bit less please”.
One way to think about it is to take all costs into account and then think of a way to make the device different from the rest and fit into the current market:
$550 - Behringer X-touch (8 faders)
$800 - Presonus Faderport 16 (16 faders, 1 rotary)
$1,500 - Avid s1 (8 faders, Eucon, Tablet expandable)
$5,000 - Avid s3 (16 faders, Eucon, Tablet expandable)
$10,000 - Nuage
$A car - Avid s4 and up…
Under the s1/Eucon it’s all MCU. So the question is; how much is Eucon worth? Take what you would like to pay for a non-Avid controller that’s laid out like the s1, add that number, and see if it’s $1,500. If it is, then just getting the s1 probably makes sense. If it’s lower then compare to other offerings and again consider what you’d like to see in that controller and if it’s financially viable, realistically.
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Another aspect is that today’s workflows are vastly different from the past with physical consoles. It’s really hard to put today’s complex setups into a hardware setup, and keep up with it, and at the same time provide incremental value that justifies the cost. I don’t think there is a good and scalable way for any hardware solution to compete with what today’s software can do we, and we expect.
The only thing that is a bit harder on the software only solution is riding one or a small handful of faders. And that’s what these < $2K controllers solve. Anything above that just doesn’t compute for many workflows.
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