Strange layout in Dorico 6

[Dominik_Skrabal]

I know that this can be changed in the vertical spacing settings, but I don’t remember ever noticing this behavior in earlier versions.

Namely, I created a new score and copied the flute part with the result as in the attached photo. Didn’t Dorico have a better layout by default. Although the vertical spacing settings are set to minimum values, shouldn’t collisions be avoided due to the enabled “collision avoidance” option. Also, didn’t it used to be the default that Dorico wouldn’t exceed 100% music frame fill. As you can see, here it’s over 106%.

I’m not saying this isn’t normal behavior, I just never noticed it before in previous versions, and I’ve worked a lot in Dorico.

Also some of the letters overlap which I have never noticed before.

[benwiggy]

@Dominik_Skrabal

Also some of the letters overlap which I have never noticed before.

It is quite normal for ff, fl and fi to be displayed as “ligatures” – single glyphs that combine the two letters into one shape.

[asherber]

@Dominik_Skrabal

Also, didn’t it used to be the default that Dorico wouldn’t exceed 100% music frame fill. As you can see, here it’s over 106%.

Daniel has explained elsewhere that there can be a kind of circular reasoning in the layout engine, depending on page contents, that can sometimes produce a cluttered page like this. Most likely, if you put a manual frame break at the start of the last system, everything will be fine.

Here’s his explanation:

„Resolve the collision..” strange behavior

The problem here is that Dorico does not know exactly how much vertical space the music is going to occupy until it has cast it off, but it cannot know exactly how to cast it off until it knows the height of the music, so this is an inherently circular problem. When the 'Automatically resolve collisions between adjacent staves and systems’ option is on, then Dorico makes an estimate of what it thinks the height of the system(s) is likely to be prior to casting it off, so that it can decide when…

[dan_kreider]

If you want to get rid of the fl ligature in Academico, here’s a link: Academico font: problem with "fl" combination - #15 by dan_kreider

[MarcLarcher]

If the percentage is over 100%, you cannot trust Dorico’s automatic layout capabilities. It really ends at 100%. So decrease some inter system gaps and similar settings, or change the rastral size, or margins, whatever, but go back to 100% or less

[Dominik_Skrabal]

Thanks a lot Dan.

[Dominik_Skrabal]

That’s clear to me, but I don’t understand why it distributes systems in such a way that more than 100% is in one frame.

I didn’t do this manually, it just happened automatically, and as I said, I don’t remember ever noticing this in previous versions. It’s like something is different now.

[Dominik_Skrabal]

Thank you very much for your answer. I understand that it is impossible to satisfy all the parameters, I just wanted to point out that I have never noticed this before, especially when it comes to part layout. I understand that bigger problems can arise when it comes to multiple systems, but this is very unusual for me.

[MarcLarcher]

Yes, it sometimes happens… Fortunately, not that often! (That’s probably why it’s the first time you experience it!)

[hrnbouma]

I don’t believe anything has been changed in this regard for version 6.1, you’ve just happened to come across this edge case right now. Essentially, some pairs of staves are pushed apart a lot further than the software expected. In this case mainly the high notes + articulations in bars 34 and 36 in interaction with the dynamics in the staves above. To a lesser extent also bars 9 and 26. Whenever someone brings up this issue there are always a few ‘outliers’ like that.

[Dominik_Skrabal]

I understand. Thanks.