I was just wondering. We have a lot of Finale->Dorico switchers at the moment for obvious reasons. How does the switch from Finale to Dorico compares to the switch from Sibelius to Dorico? At the moment the ex Sibelius users keep very quiet, still I remember the time when Dorico was launched, we had a lot of Sibelius converts (like myself), and there was also a bit of friction trying to understand and learn Dorico’s new basic concepts. This phase was quite manageable. The reason might have been, that despite the fact Sibelius users could produce almost professional looking scores, there has been an underlying frustration with certain aspects of the software, and how they were handled (“the ribbon”…). So everybody seemed to be happy and relieved at the same time to enter a new pathway to a much better engraving.
I am not sure I can find the same enthusiasm from the Finale “converts” now.
Is it, because they were actually happy with their solution, or was it that the sacrifice of a long learning curve at the beginning before being able to use it (Finale was supposedly less intuitive compared to Sibelius) should pay off at the end - and didn’t?
I moved from Finale to Sibelius (in 2012) and then from Sibelius to Dorico (in 2018).
My reasons for moving from Finale to Sibelius were to do with specific things that were taking me inordinate amounts of time in Finale that Sibelius did easily. Sibelius could get me to 80 or 90% of the finished product with a lot less effort. Although I didn’t think (and I still don’t think) that its engraving looks as nice as Finale’s when you put a lot of time and effort into the Finale engraving, if you don’t have enough time, Sibelius does a better job.
After the Sibelius team was laid off and became the Dorico team, Sibelius languished for years. They moved to subscription at a time when basically nothing was happening with the program. I remember it was the first update of the new team (before moving to subscription), and the big new engraving feature they were trumpeting was they allowed copy and paste of tuplets (if I remember correctly, it was definitely something to do with tuplets). So I tried this new feature, and it didn’t work properly, adding about a dozen random rests at the end. Then they got rid of upgrades and made the subscription mandatory. I decided to hang out on the 7.5.x instead of moving to the subscription model.
Then Dorico came out and I bought it right away but sadly it wasn’t ready for prime time then - I was going to use it to write a piano piece and it couldn’t do piano pedaling yet. In 2018 I finally started to move to it, not because it was completely ready, but because Sibelius 7.5.1 was starting to become really unstable on my system, crashing all the time, and I didn’t want to be forced to the subscription model.
Both the switch from Finale to Sibelius and the switch from Sibelius to Dorico saved me time and made me more efficient overall, after the learning curve of getting used to the new software.
New Finale Convert here. Finale since version 1!!! over 5,000 Finale docs on my drive. I tried Dorico a while back, after reading Daniel’s blog posts. Some stuff didn’t seem to work yet, especially chord symbols, so I put it aside. Since the Finale’s finale announcement, I bought the crossgrade and am now in my first couple of manuscripts. Wow, so different. I don’t see how any notation app could be easy-to-learn, so I’m OK with that. It’s easy to see why many of the design choices were made. Also trying MuseScore- I like the content available, but it seems kinda buggy.
Looking forward to the help I’ll receive here. Thanks in advance.
WALL OF TEXT WARNING
I’l just write my opinion here, go on if you want to read a more articulated story
I think the reason why the Sibelius switch seamed more manageable, is because Sibelius users just decided to make the switch, gradually, with no rush. So everyone’s quiet with it. Latest Finale ones saw their loved software (and 30+ year of expertise) die in front off their own eyes. Even if Finale won’t completely shut down tomorrow, psycologically it’s a completely different situation.
I’m a long time Sibelius user. My story can be really long, but I’ll try to make it short:
I switched to Dorico in January/February 2024. Ironically, I switched to Dorico because at first I wanted to switch to Finale. I really loved Sibelius and did everything with it, from guitar tabs to movie scores to Penderecki style composition, but there where many things I didn’t like: too many workarounds for contemporary music and the sensation that things will remain the same for the years to come. Also, I spent a lot of money for the perpetual license. The fact I have to pay every year approx € 100 to receive support just doesn’t make any sense to me. And the updates… for that price I expect to see many of them and significative ones. This year I paid 272 euros, if I remember well, because I had to pass from 2021 to 2024.3. During 2024, I’ve received 4 updates: one was strictly for mobile application, so not useful. I promised to keep it short, so I’ll not rant…
Also I hate subscription models…
So, after documenting a little I decided for the expensive solution and bought Dorico Pro after one week on SE.
Making the switch to Dorico did not resolve all of my problems: I still can’t do cut-away scores, I have to do workaround for the boxes (which are native in Sib), and multiphonics and many other things that everyone knows here. I’ve also been in trouble sometimes while copying more traditional stuff.
BUT:
- Almost everything else in Dorico it’s just way faster than Sibelius: I finally can write gradual dinamics with flared ends with just one click. I can handle speed varying trills, tremolos, Saariaho trills, free time, simultaneous time signatures, lines handling, SMuFL etc. One week in Dorico and I was way faster and proficient than after 10+ years on Sib.
- I loved, REALLY LOVED as a newbie the “modes” workflow…
- Updates: with a update speed rate of about one per month, and every one with significative changes, FOR FREE, that’s just a game changer for me.
- Support and forum: since I subscribed here I felt like I become way more proficient as an engraver and musician. The team is the crown jewel of this software, and all the gentlemen here are skilled and heart kinded musicians from whom I’m learning a lot (thank you all!). This, and the updates make me think this program will evolve and all the things I can’t do know… I will be able to do in the future, and probably in a very straightforward way.
I’m one of those who went from Finale to Sibelius to Dorico.
I went to Sibelius because I couldn’t stand Finale any more. I had bought Finale while my second wife was still alive and she didn’t like me using expletives. I was using so many of them while trying to work with Finale, she finally said, “Isn’t there some other way that will make you less angry?”
So I checked, and sure enough there was.
I was very comfortable with Sibelius, and stopped swearing almost entirely. I also fell in love with their Forum and with Daniel. (Not literally, but I’m sure you know what I mean.) Eventually I became one of their Beta testers (I think I can legally reveal that now!) and thus even more of a Sib fan.
When Avid got rid of the London crew, I knew it was only a matter of a short time before I’d switch, and I did, as of Dorico 1.4. I’ve been here ever since and have never regretted the switch for a moment. To (finally) answer your question, k_b, I think the difference between the two sources of cross-grade is the difference in the customer base itself. Sibelius users like myself knew what really mattered. It was the people, more than the product. And when the people left, we went with them. Whereas, for Finale, the people were pretty much invisible and unapproachable, so it was the product, not the people.
All three approaches to music notation are sufficiently different from each other that when users get into a ‘groove’ with one, it’s hard to switch to another (unless you’re swearing at the first one, as I had been). What made the switch from Sib to Dorico easy for me was that the Finn brothers, who invented Sib originally, were not software designers at heart, so the original Sib was rather clunky. But Daniel’s expertise quickly provided quick and huge improvements, so that the program became (for me) very intuitive. I knew when he left I had to go too, and that made the Dorico switch very easy. I found the design at first less intuitive, but by hanging in there and trusting the team, I got to where I think ‘Dorico’ automatically and bye-bye F and S.
The Finale product from day one had a lot of problems (in my opinion), but if you could somehow bear it and learn it, it was easier to stay with it rather than learn a new approach. For Sib users, I think the vast majority came from Finale to begin with, so we were used to change, and so the idea of switching was easier.