Hi everyone,
I would be curious to try a possible use for my Tascam 488 cassette tape recorder together with Cubase, as I used to do in the old Atari days for recording audio and MIDI I sync… (Something like Alessandro Cortini does with Nine Inch Nails for ones who know him)
At the time I used a Tascam Mts 30 midi synchronizer, that I still own, but I used Atari MIDI on board ports, no more present on my MacBook or MacMini.
How could I do these days? Could a Cakewalk UM-G1 be useful for this purpose?
I would be very grateful for helping.
Art
p.s. I also considered using SMPTE code but once I recorded it on tape I would need something to resend it to computer…
Doesn’t NIN just use them for improvised layered textures? (tape loop style)
I used to use SMPTE to sync my sequencer to a tape machine but this was before any digital audio. I doubt there’s a way to lock a tape machine to a computer and even locking a modern DAW to tape seems dicey. Especially a 4 track that wobbles all over the place.
Using it as an offline process would be super cool but I think anything beyond that isn’t worth the trouble.
(I hope this isn’t discouraging… because ideas like yours are what makes for interesting music)
Hi @Kearley,
I have the eight tracks model, for the truth, but the goal is the same…
I’f I don’t go wrong Cortini records some tracks (like chord pads…) from the song NIN are going to play live and he does some kind of real time processing with various effects but I think he’s in sync.
I think the (or one of more videos) video where he explains the process is this one but I have to rewatch it…
You didn’t discourage me, keyway, don’t worry I am curious to try but I won’t spend too much time on it if I don’t succeed (I want to sell my old Tascam but a friend of mine insisted so that I try… I’ll let you know
Best,
Art
Yes, indeed!
Thank you @Reco29, hope I’ll have a bit of fun but there are a lot of other things to experiment with…
My main goal, as well as trying Cortini’s technique, would be to recover some old tape cassette better then I did in the past; if I’ll realize that I can find a new ‘voice’ it will be a good new, anyway
Best,
Art
You can’t sync the tape to a DAW (the tape cannot vary it’s speed to stay in sync), and you can’t sync Cubase to tape – Cubase must always be the master.*
You don’t need sync to do this … I’m not familiar with the 488, but if you have as many inputs on your audio interface as you have outputs on the 488, you just connect each tape output to its own audio interface input, route each input to a Cubase track and record them all simultaneously.
May I ask, were the tapes you wish to recover recorded on the same machine?
[EDIT:] *But Cubase can sync to MIDI Time Code (MTC).
The following is not sync’ing and quite tedious with 8 tracks per song, but:
You could record one track at the time (in Cubase), and then tempo adjust to a click click track in Cubase, the usual way, as shown by Dom Sigalas and many others on YouTube.
Then export each one and import all eight into the final project. Be sure to have the same reference start point in each one of the tempo corrected tracks before exporting them as they should match when imported later, so that the Parts will start at the same time even if there is silence in the beginning.
I haven’t done this myself but I do believe it will work.
If you do it like MrSoundman describes there will of course be little - if any - need for tempo correction.
HI @MrSoundman,
yes, tapes were recorded on Tascam itself, many years ago.
Thank you, I was not up to date as I did this practice a lot many years ago (Atari days…) but actually is no more possible today (I’ve searched in the manual, in the meanwhile) so I think I could throw my MTS in the trash, if I don’t find some amateur still using Atari…
The reason for syncing was to make audio on tape and midi on computer matching via the recorded sync code on track eight of Tascam but I discovered there’s a work around that Greg Ondo explained very well in some episode of his serie on YouTube.
Regarding audio I did pass some tracks yet in the past, when I had only audio, using my MOTU 828 mkII, that I still own; I’ll have to use my old Mac Mini as MOTU having firewire port is not possible to connect it with my new MacBook Pro…
Best,
Art
HI @Marshall,
as I wrote in my reply to Mr Soundman I did pass audio tracks yet, in the past, using my MOTU 828 mkII which has eight inputs (and now I’ve remembered that I still connect it to my Audient ID14 mkII via spdif).
Having eight digital inputs I fortunately don’t need to record in different takes; my problem was to ‘rejoin’ midi on computer, that I exported as midi files, with audio recorded on Tascam and passed on Cubase but I hope I can do it with Greg’s workaround, I’ll have to test…
Thank you for writing
Art
p.s. I use Dom Sigalas trick when I want to record free guitar parts, so to be more natural, then create a click track on them and Cubase tempo detection doesn’t makes it automatically (it’s not always granted if you play odd times or you don’t have very clear downbeats)
Am I right in thinking the MTS can take the output of track 8 (sync) and transform it into MIDI Time Code (MTC)?
Doesn’t the Audient ID14 mkII have an ADAT optical input? Then the MOTU 828 MkII is still perfectly usable as an analog front end. The routing can be set via the front panel, no need for Firwire.
OK … assuming the code is on track 8, and intact, and the MTS can read it, I think it all depends then on whether or not the MTS actually sends MIDI Time Code (MTC).
If it can, and you already have the MIDI in Cubase, then it just may be possible to achieve what you need by setting Cubase to slave to MTC:
Yes you are! MTS is made exactly for that purpose and I used it a lot in the past but I didn’t remember very well the exact procedure now, fortunately I still have the manual.
The concept, by memory, is: Cubase sends MTC to MTS who converts it in audio and then back to Cubase receiving track eight signal and transforming it in MTC.
Exactly; when you wrote it wasn’t possible I made a bit of confusion between MTC and MIDI clock but I was sure I did it in the past. I’ll probably try during next Christmas holidays.
You’re right again. I didn’t think to this possibility because I was used to have MOTU cuemix software but it’s a very good way to keep using MOTU even without firewire!
Apologies, I was thinking of audio clock (e.g. word clock, or ADAT).
I have one too, and use it as a front end for an RME RayDAT over ADAT. I even keep an old laptop with Firewire in case I ever want to change the configuration, but have so far never needed to use it.
Yeah, well… the concept from the very beginning ought to be like this:
yes, you will need to have a MIDI interface (5 pin DIN to USB) like the Cakewalk UM-G1 (which is discontinued?) or any other
connect one mono out of your audio interface to channel 8 of your Tascam; use the SMPTE Generator plugin in Cubase on a mono audio track in order to prime the current tape in your Tascam
I don’t think it’s a given that the MTS actually uses SMPTE on tape (it may be it’s own proprietary format), but can output MTC which Cubase can use. I couldn’t find a manual online.
If I understood correctly, in this case the sync signal from the MTS is already on track 8, so if it’s still readable by the MTS it should be able to (re)generate the MTC.
No need for Apologies I didn’t want to ‘accuse’ you.
This is a great advice!
Hi @Johnny_Moneto: thank you for answering but, as @MrSoundman is writing in his following post, there’s no SMPTE involved, as MTS can’t manage it; MTC and FSK are the two transmission (syncing) protocols used.
I wrote because I didn’t know if something had changed recently but I did the stuff many times in the past.
Corerect. I would share a copy of the manual but I’m not sure if it’s possibile, due to copyrights/forum rules.
Yes; it’s correct. I’m not sure if all the tapes still have code recorded because in at least one case I tried with SMPTE (…) before reading that it wasn’t possible…
What do you know, I never used Tascam equipment and have never heard of FSK so far. Cool, learned something. As far as I can tell it does the same thing as SMPTE. So you need to prime your tapes with the MTS-30.
Meanwhile I read the manual: Are you sure the MTS-30 sends MIDI Timecode? The manual refers to a clock signal all the time. Also the MIDI implementation table at the end suggests that the device actually sends MIDI clock, not MTC.
The issue is that Cubase can be slaved to incoming MTC but not to incoming MIDI clock.
Found it! Tascam MTS-30 User Manual
Unfortunately that confirms on page 17 that the MTS-30 does not send MTC, just MIDI Clock and Song Position Pointer, and uses FSK and not SMPTE on the tape.
Probably is an old kind of protocol, I’m definitely not an expert…
…as confirmed from my constant confusion between MTC and MIDI clock…
Thank you @MrSoundman, you were right, at the end…
So there must have been a date when Steinberg stop to implement MTC recognition in Cubase, because I’m sure - at least - I bought and used MTS for some reason
I think I’ll find some other way to recover my tracks; probably I’ll transfer audio into Cubase via MOTU interface linked to Audient and then I’ll try to sync everything with MIDI if I’ll find the job is worth it…
Then I’ll have to decide if selling everything to some amateur most passionate than I hame for vintage audio in general.
We are telling you that MTS-30 seems to transmit only MIDI clock. we are also telling you that Cubase can be a slave to incoming MTC - your conclusion is that Cubase stopped recognizing MTC.
I am curious to try but I won’t spend too much time on it if I don’t succeed (I want to sell my old Tascam but a friend of mine insisted so that I try… I’ll let you know
