The future of WoA, MIDI 2.0 and ASIO on Windows

Cubase
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I know there is a post in the Nuendo forum regarding Windows on ARM, with Steinberg DAW apps currently compatible, however I am wondering, in relation to Apple Silicon, is Qualcomm, an equal or similar competitor.

I ask this because as my thread title says, I want to use the system today, not next year.

I have an old Intel business laptop from HP, running Windows 10, that Microsoft will abandon come October, this year (I am not a corporate customer), and while it is only 7th Generation, with a TPU, I will still need to use a registry hack, as endorsed by the OS maker.

This is fine, as the apps currently run stable, ever since .55 of the V13 software cycle but as for plug-in makers, it appears they are in totality, only working on Mac’s.

There are two posts, from elsewhere, that got me thinking:

and

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/192867-snapdragon-x-elite-surface-pro-what-daw/

I will eventually need an NPU, not in my head but in my computer, just to run Microsofts’ Co-Pilot software, which I assume will also power DAW applications and associated plug-in’s.

I am not interested in AI based music, that does not show an interface, other than a text prompt or what not via a web browser or so-called (app) application.

Of course, the VSTSDK is compatible, with both of the power-efficient classes, which are made by the worlds’ leading device manufactures, namely Apple and others (Windows-based (not sure about Linux)) so I am not at all concerned or worried about Steinbergs’ part, however to offer some context: VST3 took ages to adopt but, to reiterate, as per my post title, I need the full DAW experience, on a power-efficient platform, now and not tomorrow.

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In my experience this is false. I use a Mac, but off the top off my head I cannot think of a single plugin download page I’ve seen that didn’t have a Mac and Windows option. That’s out of easily 60 vendors, probably closer to 100

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I have never seen ARM mentioned on a single 3rd party, VST Instrument plug-in web page, regardless of what Operating System, can be run on it.

In fact, only one company (German of course) makes drivers for audio interfaces so while excellent in terms of technological innovation, is a far cry from actually being able to be used, in typical media production scenarios.

4

Here’s some more info that may help you decide:

Also, from that FAQ and several other sources, WoA (Windows on ARM) DOES support running many existing Intel-based x64 apps and VST3 plugins on ARM via Arm64EC (“Emulation Compatible”) – so you CAN run many existing plugins. But that will be hit or miss in the real world… for example, iLok plugins do NOT currently work from my understanding… no surprise there! And I’m sure there are other hiccups as this is still maturing.

So it’s something you will have to experiment with and see for yourself, but the fact that it’s officially supported NOW across several Steinberg products, plus the way Arm64EC works and Prism should ease the transition. That’s all great news IMO and a fantastic step forward. It took a lot of work and smart engineering to make it possible, so Steinberg should get some kudos.

Microsoft has been working well with Steinberg from what we can see on this topic. Ralf Kuerschner at Steinberg and Pete Brown at Microsoft ( @Psychlist1972 ) have built what appears to be a strong relationship, and I hope that continues!

You may want to follow Pete or maybe he can comment, since he appears to be a driving force inside Microsoft to make this all successful. I assume he’s also working with other developers too, perhaps with Reason Studios, etc., which recently announced some Windows on Arm compatibility too. Maybe he knows something about the status of iLok on ARM too?

Good luck! In my case, I decided to wait for the next gen of Qualcomm’s Snapdragon X Elite, which is rumored to have 50% more cores than the current gen. Nothing against the current gen, which is great. I might still snag a current gen machine though if I spot a good deal. Bottom line is that Windows on ARM is the real deal, Steinberg officially supports it now, and many existing plugins should work fine on it. YMMV. Over time, I expect more developers to go native, and the platform will mature.

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I could not wait for the snapdragon platform to mature as I need to run some audio software for DJing which hw drivers do not support the snapdragon yet.
So I went with a Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 notebook which is on paper faster than the snapdragon x elite.
However, in real live my benchmarks show that the snapdragons are way faster (60% to snapdragon performance published here in this forum) and the fan is going wild. So, I hope the platform matures fast as there is a lot of potential. I also have plugins on iLok…

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.
As of about a week ago Pete Brown (EDIT: corrected name) said:

"… Building a custom PC or buying a tower for music creation: go with Intel/AMD, not Arm.

Laptop: strongly consider Arm, but we’re not 100% there for music creation yet."

https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.ph … stcount=94

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The same could be said when Apple released the M1. The difference is with Apple the software vendors had to adjust. What will slow Windows progress, arguably as always, is the fact that there are choices like Intel and AMD. So the ARM chips have to be impressive to stand out and give folks a reason to switch. By folks, I don’t necessarily mean audio heads like us. It’s a numbers game that’s ruled by demand… by gamers, devs, and industry in general. “If you build it they will come”

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In fact, only one company (German of course) makes drivers for audio interfaces so while excellent in terms of technological innovation, is a far cry from actually being able to be used, in typical media production scenarios.

RME is a huge force in the industry, and yes, they have Arm64 Windows drivers for their entire line of USB products.

  • So does Audient.
  • So does Steinberg/Yamaha
  • And Focusrite is coming soon, as announced at Snapdragon Summit

We’ll also have a preview of our in-box ASIO driver available this summer, which will work with all USB Audio class 2 interfaces. In-box in Windows will be likely early 2026. The actual delivery date is quality-driven.

iLok is coming soon as well. They have been actively working on it for a while.

Both Sweetwater and KVR are tracking Arm-compatible apps and plugins. The KVR page says “Arm64EC” but it’s really both Arm64 and Arm64EC. In the end, it won’t really matter to you as almost every plugin developer will offer both variants, guaranteeing compatibility with all the DAWs on Arm.

KVR Page: https://www.kvraudio.com/plugins/windows-11-arm64ec
Sweetwater Page: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/windows-on-arm-compatibility-guide/

In addition, many plugins will run under emulation just fine.

The momentum for Arm64 for music creation on Windows really only started 9 months ago. Amazing progress since then, but we’re not at 100% yet.

If you go this route now, you may have a great experience, or you may experience some friction. Beyond the audio driver, it’s largely going to depend on plugins you use, and if they block installation on Arm64. I would suggest asking on forums if you don’t see your more indispensable plugins showing on Arm64 lists.

My desktop is Intel, my laptop is Snapdragon. After having used the Surface Laptop 7 at events and on the road, I won’t go back. But at home, on my desk, where I have 192GB memory, 16TB of on-board nvme storage, a massive nvidia graphics card, 4k video capture, and an RME PCIe audio interface, I am sticking with x64 for the foreseeable future. :slight_smile:

Pete
Microsoft

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I am very positive about the ARM future of Windows. I really wanted to stay on Windows, but no way ARM would cover my needs this year, so I did go buy my first MAC. I hate the Mac OS but I must admit everything that annoys me about Windows hardware is non existing on the M4 mac. the noise, the heat all gone.

hopefully Arm will be the way forward. Steinberg has stepped up. RME has stepped up.. but without ilok, universal audio, u-he, plugin alliance, toneboosters and cableguys onboard yet I couldn’t make the switch to arm.

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Pete Kaine is the main Audio guy at Scan computers in the UK.

M

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Apple have shown that ARM is a strong contender. Qualcomm is show that it can run windows too. Most of the worlds hand-held devices uses ARM. For a good reason, it is much more efficient that x86. But we still does not see workstation class solutions. Applel use M3-ultra and it is good. But it is still only a iphone on steroids. I think the revolution just have started.

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Thank you for this update and for all your hard work in general. And please keep pushing iLok, this is one of the barriers for me to jump in. (Although I’m pretty psyched about it already and will probably jump in on the next Spapdragon Elite.)

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Other than the empirical paradox innate in my reply, I’m ignoring this statement :slight_smile:

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I am curious about the Native ASIO driver, that Microsoft is working on, so does this mean that end users will no longer need to download manufacturer specific drivers, when using WoA and will it be as efficient as the native driver on Apple systems?

I recall MC, from RME saying that he thanks God that Macs are nothing like PC’s, when it comes to the audio driver, so if this is right, would it mean that there would be even lower latencies available and even greater reliability for DAW operations?

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One hopes this is the case. :crossed_fingers: What I HAVE seen discussed in various forums and podcasts is that a lot of things are slowly cooking behind the scenes with Microsoft in this regard, including MIDI 2.0, etc… so whatever is going on is theoretically pretty good for all of us.

I believe Microsoft’s Pete Brown is likely the man who probably knows the most about the status on these topics, and he’s here in this forum, thank goodness. As far as I’m concerned, as long as Pete stays in his job, there is hope for Microsoft and DAW stuff. If he leaves Microsoft for whatever reason, I feel we will have some setbacks. It appears to have taken him years working on all this and helping to connect the dots with developers and Microsoft to get us the momentum that we have right now. So he has my thanks!

Then again, I could be wrong about all that! :smiling_face_with_halo:

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I am very interested in MIDI 2.0 but this seems to be only available on a Mac’s:

I’m supposing this (MIDI 2.0) will also be available on x86 machines, as well as ARM and it will be a good time, since I am assuming that advanced automation and controllers can be edited in the Cubase/Nuendo Key Editor pages, rather than just being displayed, and only editable via the Project page.

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What exactly do you think should happen?

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How automation data can be edited in a lane, in the Project page via a Track, should be the same as for controller data, inside the Key Editor, via a Part.

In addition, there should be a data list available, which includes automation or controller data nodes, as well as Bezier handle positions, associated curves, as well as a reset button, that functions in a not dissimilar way, to how the setting of a Ramp vs a Step, is performed, with respect to tempo nodes.

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In the Key Editor you already have the ramps, that handle similiar to the VST automation in the project window.

Regarding the list: That might hopefully come. Do you plan to buy any MIDI 2.0 gear in the near future? Anything particular in mind already? Currently it seems there is not much available.

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I only use the Automation System, inside the DAW, and designate automation nodes and design curves, using the mouse