Thinking about switching to Wavelab 7

I have Wavelab 6 and liked it very much. However the Montage was pretty complicated for me. I went to Samplitude 10 for mastering. They have many tutorial videos which helped me out. In Wavelab and Samplitude, you can put the songs in the order you want, with the 2 second space between each one and add markers. Now in Samplitude, I can jump to any song, and compare the volume and sound of each song. I can then add a limiter in each song and adjust the volume for each song. Yes I know we should rely on the meters as well, but sometimes a song may sound a little softer and I would want to make one of the songs a little louder. Maybe adjust the EQ top end a little. After I do that, I can just burn the cd on the fly.

I believe you can do something similar with Wavelab through Montage but I don’t know how. Wavelab 7 adds 30 more plug ins, the work flow seems to have improved, and it looks like a better overall program compared to Wavelab 6. Can anyone explain how you can all your songs in the order you want, and the ability to add separate plug ins for different songs. I don’t like the working on one song, and render than then at the end combine them together and just burn the cd. I like the ability to have all the songs laid out in the order you want and the ability to manipulate each song with separate plug ins. With Samplitude, this is called object editing.

I have recently have a PC with Windows 7 64 bit, and I am also running Cubase 5 at 32 bit right now. I have the Wavelab 6 manual, so I will start to dive into it. Samplitude 10 is currently giving me problems with its code meter with my Windows 7 64 bit PC. In addition it’s wonderful compressor Ammunition freeze’s up as well. I was not able to find any fixes with Magix with Samplitude.

UPDATE: After reading the glowing review of Wavelab 7 in Sound on Sound magazine http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/dec10/articles/wavelab-7.htm, I ordered Wavelab 7.Not sure if I will like it better that Samplitude 10 but I will give it a go. Disappointed that there is no manual included with Wavelab 7. ,

In Wavelab, this is called the montage :sunglasses: and it is exactly where the montage works great. In the montage, each CD track is a clip, and you can put all or several clips on one montage track. Each clip can have its own effects, but also each montage track. Then also plugins can be added to the whole montage in the master section. And I haven’t even spoken about the envelope editing and fading yet… This is very brief, but the section about audio montage in the WL6 manual explains it all very well. I think you made a good choice.

Luck, Arjan

Just opened montage and see where you add the effects. Pretty easy. I assume if you want different effects for different songs, each song will have to be on a different track. What I remember when I used to use Wavelab was in order to work in Montage, you had to get a file opened in the standard mode, and then under edit, open it in the montage. Once it opens in montage, lets say you want to add another channel. So the tab for track one, you click to add another track. (How do you add several at once? Or can’t you select all the songs you want in the montage and have them all open up on different tracks one right after the other with the 2 second space between each? In the past I had to create a new montage track on track one, then on track 2 add another track, etc. Then add the audio insert in each track when it is lined up after the 1st song.

In Samplitude if you have some songs at 48 instead of 44, it will ask if you want Samp to convert it to 44. In Wavelab 6 it does not appear to do that. Does Wavelab 7 offer this feature or do I have to make sure all my songs are at 44 when downloading them into Wavelab?

The best way is the one that suits you best. Seriously, you’ll get people advocating both approaches. As it happens, I put all clips on one track and adjust volumes using the volume envelopes, but I’m not saying that’s the way you should do it.

Paul

I just received Wavelab 7 today. I registered it, uploaded version 7.01, and started playing with it. The overall impression is that I like the display and workflow of 7 better than 6. However with no printed manual, it looks like I will have to print over 200 pages of the manual to figure things out. Looking at the tutorial DVD of 7 which may be a helpful option. Right now, I am printing the first 200 pages of the manual. I firmly believe that this is the best version of Wavelab, and I am excited to learn the program. I am sure once the next update come out in April, it will be even better. Right now I can’t get my Mackie Controller to work with the transport controls.

I also printed out the whats new from version 6 to 7 and found that helpful as well. The Sound on Sound review of 7 was also very insightful.

I strongly recommend newbies grab the WL6 manual… the WL7 manual is nigh on useless, lacking illustrations and figures to guide you, not to mention tutorials, quickstarts and learning tools. WL6 is close enough to the model, but far better organized manual/documentation.

In terms of the montage, it’s pretty good. There are 3 stages where users can apply effects/processing: Clip effects are plugs that reside on any selected chunk of audio in the montage. Track effects are the next stage in the signal path, and are applied to all clips (chunks of audio) in a specific track (horizontal timeline) of the Montage EDL. Finally, all tracks are summed at the level of their last effect, and fed to the Master section, where you can apply a common set of effects to all tracks of a Montage.

There are some significant differences between these stages. Clips and tracks are most similar, and work more or less the same, living in the same GUI window. Master section effects differ in that:

  • you can insert external effects devices (as long as you don’t care about drop outs and glitches on rendering, which seems unavoidable over here - real time capture is the best option, ideally outside of WL7). Yes, it’s broken, and this isn’t how it’s supposed to work. They’re bizarrely called “ASIO” inserts - odd since mac has no ASIO; that term is jargon for what’s called “external” inserts or i/o in every other app. But they exist and CAN work, with patience and tweaking and an external capture utility.
  • Master effects are applied not just to your montage, but also to open audio files and all playbacks from WL7. It’s always-on.
  • You can save your master effects with the montage or seperately, but ASIO effects and their settings are always lost (bug).

To respond to the specific question raised, I tend to use CLIP effects for things that are specific to each song (like EQ, compression, effects), TRACK effects for things common to a group of tracks, say all the acoustic tracks or ballads or anthems or whatever (Limiters can often be fed this way), and MASTER for dithering.

I can’t really use the montage at all for jobs reliant on my external Sontec EQ or Smart and Manley analog comps, because of the aforementioned issues with the external inserts - EQ changes song-by song, and I often prefer it as the first stage, ahead of digital comps that I’d set on a per-clip basis, rarely is it last. In fact, with modern high end converters, it’s painless to move in/out of digital domain via multiple conversions, so many valid signal paths are blocked by the routing in WL7. This relegates it to all-digital plug-based projects, since I really require the ability to fluidly audition between tracks, in context, with all processing applied (I need the Montage, audio file processing not so much). I hate working on albums without having things properly placed, trimmed and aligned. OTOH I use WL7 pretty freely on singles and shorter formats, where this isn’t an obstacle.

Hope this helps.

It’s too deep of a program to figure out on my own. I just ordered the Wavelab 7 tutorial DVD. In Samplitude with the Spectrum (purple graph) on the screen, you could highlight the area you want to change with a mouse where you might hear some noise, etc., and presto it’s removed. In Wavelab, I clicked the Spectrum menu above and tried it to do the same thing with no avail. With a full time job and kids, I need the DVD to quickly layout how to use this program0. Don’t have the time to study Wavelab 6’s manual for weeks and then read up on Wavelab 7. Ugh :nerd:
To be honest I learned Samplitude quickly with their free tutorials on their web site.

…As a long time user of Wavelab 5, and a shorter time user of 6, I have to say that I find 7 to be a bit less intuitive and slower to use than the earlier versions. The attempt to add in lots of menu items and make the GUI reorganized in a supposedly more fluid way has undone some of the simplicity and directness of working in the Montage.

That being said, however, Wavelab in general is still the fastest, most fluid of all the editing paradigms around, in my opinion, and very easy to use for CD editing and mastering. Your description of “having” to open files in the Audio File Editor first is inaccurate, in fact. One can stay in the Montage constantly and perform most functions, and the overall fluidity of the freeform track/lane structure and totally non-destructive editing is fairly unique, and only limited by your intent.

I will have to agree with other posters that the current manual is moderately useless. I originally bought Wavelab version 4, with a printed manual. Even though I eventually realized that I only needed to read the relatively small section on the Montage, that small section was much more informative than anything currently in .pdf format for 7, in my opinion. If any of that earlier manual exists, it may be a good place to start.

I would also add that some experienced users are finding missing or moved commands or somewhat confusing changes since Wavelab 6, even though the general interface is still pretty familiar. This means that, in some instances, experienced users may have more confusion than newbies, so some support from users will be confusing until we figure out how things are different, and how to adjust our working methods.

An old friend hired me to come out to his house and teach him to use Wavelab when he switched from another workstation that we had both owned before, and I, not having used 7 prior to this, was thrown by the changes. Even with that, however, my friend was rocketing along very quickly…So I think the learning curve may not be so steep once you get the basic paradigm.

ANY new software requires some realignment in thinking. Bar none…

I’ll chime in with a couple updates for others new to WL7, like me…

First and foremost, I’ve found that time spent customizing commands and workspaces to be among the most valuable investments a newbie can make in this app. In addition to exposing invisible parts of the program for exploration, it lets you get down to useful work faster, which aides learning. It also minimizes some of the lack of docs/manual issues; after rooting around in hidden dialogs and focusing on various windows, tools and command bars, much of the confusion’s burned away.

Second, as I mentioned the WL6 docs/manual and materials are very very helpful, and most differences are bridged by the exercise above. Essentially, you wind up replacing a lot of the defaults and norms through customization, which counterintuitively makes the differences in the old-version manual less significant. I guess you stop expecting things to look a particular way, and focus more on the workflow and concepts.

Finally, I decided to try the VTC training courses, as opposed to buying a DVD. While the materials aren’t great, they are broken up nicely and well organized, so I’ve found it pretty easy to get deeper explanations and an organized feature presentation for areas of confusion (for me, not the app). At $30 for a month, with access to tutorials and materials for many apps, it was a better fit for me. I’ll probably still buy the Wavelab 7 Power book when it comes out. But I’d prefer (and even pay for!) a real manual from Steinberg, and authorized tutorials.

Anyway, things are looking up.

I received the video tutorial and went through all of the video through Montage. Lots of things to learn, lots of features that really impressed me. Now I finally understand how to apply different effects to different songs in Montage without having each song on a different track. :smiley: Wavelab 7 is very impressive! I also have a better understanding of some of the meters. Still need to go through the rest of the tutorial, but today I need to record some music.