I was working with a studio that was having troubnle mixing low end.
Aside from adding some acoustice padding to the walls in back of the speakers, and adding acoustic padding under the speakers to keep the sound from transferring to the surface below, I noticed that his cutoff switch was set to ‘Flat’.
Unless you have very large monitors, your speakers will not be able to reproduce many of the frequencies below 80 Hz. What WILL happen is the power from those frequencies will still be sent to your Woofer and will affect the speaker’s response and what you’re hearing. Set the switch to 80 Hz and you’ll be surprised at how clean and accurate your low end will become.
Problem solved.
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That is completely nonsense.
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Funny, my 5" Focals can reproduce 80hz just fine (which is where my crossover is set), and go down to about 45Hz… Almost didn’t need my subwoofer when I got these a couple years ago, but still use it anyways because Jungle!
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What is “very large”?
I sit in front of my speakers and can easily hear a sine wave at 36Hz.
Its produced by a 200mm/8" bass driver.
Cleaning up the low end is usually a good thing but I think your statement might be a bit too radical to be true.
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Sorry but that is indeed nonsense…
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Well this could work if you’re only writing music for people who wear “in-ear” ear buds but that could be slightly limiting as a musical career path.
My Adam Audio T8’s can apparently reproduce audio down to 33hz. I always take these claims with a “pinch of salt” but so far they haven’t disappointed.
Any sort of EQ reduction - or LACK of EQ work at 80hz and below (cos you can’t hear it…) would be potentially disastrous for those of us who write music with lots of low-end information. (ie Techno, Drum and Bass).
I think they’re having you on 
This is definitely inaccurate: my monitors by themselves are flat down to 36Hz. My sub takes it down further to 24Hz.
I do use the sub’s 80Hz crossover, because yes, it sounds best (however, I’d like this crossover to be variable, nonetheless: more control is better to get your room just right).
Please, allow me to explain better as to why I think you should set the cutoff switch to 80 Db…
Also, this is not a one time ‘jumping’ to conclusion… I have verified this MANY times.
When I played a full spectrum reference song through this system, I moved the the cutoff switch to 80 Hz. There was little or no perceivable change. Switched it to 100 Hz and the change was definitely more than obvious.
So now we have to weigh the affects of these low frquencies that we’re blocking.
As I’m sure you know, the lower the frequency, the more Power is sent to the speaker to reproduce it. This also means the longer throw ( further distance the cone will move ) and for a longer period of time.
If you watch the cone when sending a low frequency you’ll see it move, even if you can’t hear it.
( I’ve pointed this out to Engineers when I’ve seen their woofer pumping way beyond the volume of the music)
Can you imagine how these large powerful waves are influencing the accuracy of your woofer and your ability to reference your music?
Even if your speakers CAN reproduce the lows… should they?
So my point is, if you Need to work with, and Manage low frquencies, get a Subwoofer ( or a really good set of Headphones ) and have the crossover or cutoff switch remove the low frequencies that your monitor speakers are having to deal with.
How to setup a subwoofer properly is another topic…
Here’s a quote from my customer…
Mixing in this studio now is an absolute delight! The carpet and gain stage adjustments, (board and monitors), have solved all the unnecessary “information” I was compensating for.
Which system? Specify brand and model.
That depends on the speakers, the processing and the enclosure. And of course the room and its treatments have some influence as well.
NO, Frequencies above 50Hz you can’t see. You just see that the membrane is vibrating. And it’s not possible for your eyes to say at which frequency.
If you see single movements, this is way below 50Hz.
And we are aware of subsonic filtering. But around 80Hz isn’t subsonic content.
I can imagine it. Maybe you should ask Neumann or Genelec why they produce monitors that can reproduce frequencies under 80Hz in very small enclosures.
And now you are trying to say that there is a subwoofer in the system?
So what was your first statement aimed at?
System and model has nothing to do with it.
I think you’re missing the point.
Your response here has nothing to do with what I’m saying…
Please let me explain…
Sound is like water in many ways. It has volume. It flows. It splashes.
An amplifier is the Pump. The Speaker wire is the Pipe.
A low frequency can be a very large volume of Water that is going to Push that Woofer Cone.
A speaker is like a shower head. What you should ‘see’ coming at you are many
thousands of little tiny drops of water. Speaker covers, and the point that I’m trying to make to everyone is that this huge volume of water effects that outcome.
Your response has to do with what you hear after the Speaker cone moves.
I never said anything about which frequencies I was referring to. However I will explain further…
An engineer is working on a song. I’m standing behind him watching. He comes to a part of the song where I see the woofer JUMP out!
I tell him he as a low frequency that that’s turn up to loud. He doesn’t think that’s possible. He thinks he would have heard it.
I have him replay the part and look at the speaker.
He was very surprised. Zeroing in on it he found the problem and repaired it.
I didn’t need to research the frequency. It just needed to be fixed.
Marketing?
Why do companies like Monstor cable make shitty speaker wire and tell you it’s great?
Never said there was a sub-woofer. I was talking about ‘Powered Monitors’.
I suggested that subwoofers are the answer if you’re not satisfied with having your speaker cutoff switch at 80 Hz.
I’ve been through this scenario many, many times.
The results are nothing short of jaw dropping
If not, it’s because of other factors… Gain Staging, Speaker placement, Acoustic Problems, etc
There are many improvements you can make to get you to the quality of sound you really dream of.
This is just one of them.
I agree.
I edited that to say ‘Many of the Frequencies below 80 Hz’.
Maybe this thread would be better moved to the Lounge or something as it doesn’t really have anything to do with Cubase in and of itself.
When I set up a subwoofer for someone, one of the first things I do is turn off the volume of the subwoofer, then walk up the crossover control until I hear it influence the Front speakers. That’s my cutoff point. Now I adjust SW volume and whatever other controls are available.
I don’t rely on speaker specs to set the cutoff point.
I thought it important to get this out to as many other Cubase users as possible.
If it helps them with their Mixing, it has merrit.
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Proper subwoofer setup without measuring isn’t possible.
You can’t do time alignment with the ear.
Finding the right crossover point to a subwoofer is just time alignment and matching frequency responses.
If you turn something on the subwoofer, you are not on the listening position, so every change made isn’t valid on the listening position.
Are you kidding?
These metaphors are just wrong. That is marketing b…it you heard somewhere.
Some romantic bla bla… subwoofers emit the sound all around. Not through holes… and of course not directional. To make it directional you need space, much more space than a home studio can provide.
That has nothing to do with the cutoff frequencies of monitors. If you cut the sub frequencies in the speakers, you can’t even see the low rumble in the signal.
But to identify them in a mix, we use analyzers.
A pipe organ can produce signals around 20Hz. Cutting them out makes it impossible to edit recordings with that kind of signals.
Thank you for sharing your opinion.
You live in your world.
I live in mine.
Mine doesn’t agree with anything you said.
How many frequencies do you have under 80Hz?
Again, that depends on the system in question. There are several things you can do in the design.
Neumann’s KH 120 I know very well and there is a switch for a flat response, but everybody who can read the manual is aware, that the designers did some things to prevent the monitors from reproducing to low material, and this means that the response isn’t flat under a certain frequency.
In a bass reflex system, the subsonic content needs to get filtered out, otherwise the speaker would move too much with producing any sound. This could destroy the speaker. The filter frequency should be as close as possible to the tuning frequency of the bass reflex system.
In an unvented enclosure, the subsonic filter isn’t necessary because the enclosure is preventing the speaker from too much movement. But the enclosure produces a 6dB roll off in the low frequencies under its tuning frequency.
But these filters are far away from 80Hz in the average monitor.
They are around 20-30Hz.
Again, different constructions deal different with low frequencies. And there are electrical tricks you can perform to optimize the speaker to its task.
So this is an esoteric discussion?
I am not writing to get into a pissing contest.
My track record speaks for itself.
If you don’t want to listen to what I have to say, then this isn’t for you.
It’s for the people who are having issues with mixing and could use a bit of insight to help them along.
@rchaisse You make bold statements. What are your credentials if I may ask? Are you a professional acoustician?
What is your track record, more specifically?
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If you want to give mixing tips, then ok, do it.
The tip with the rumble in the content is a good one, but it’s not related to the monitors. It’s just a matter of mixing skills and experience.
But your initial statements are just misleading, and some statements in the later discussion are simply wrong.
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