Thundersheet Playback

I have expression maps for BBSCO and VSL Synchron Spec Eds. A few instruments not covered in those two groups are played back by NotePerformer’s standard sounds.

Although I can add thundersheet to my score, notes do not play back. This is especially odd since I know VSL has a thundersheet with several articulations.

Am I doing something wrong? Thundersheet appears as a single percussion line and I put a note on it.

Are you sure you put the thunder-sheet using the Synchron Player (or a VEP instance and channel) in your VST instrument list and then connected it to your instrument? This in general does not work automatically when you add an instrument except maybe when you reload a playback template with all instruments including the thunder-sheet already in.

Thanks. I don’t know how to do that. I dumbly thought that NPPE handled all that.

Especially if you use a mix of VSL and default Halion instruments it will probably not add a vst instance automatically. So you have to add what ever library and associated plugin you want to use in the “rack” manually (left zone of the screen, right tab) in Play mode and then connect it with your instrument (left zone of the screen left tab).

Thanks. I’ll look into. I guess Ivwould add the VSL player but I’ll see what happens when I get into it.

Yes add the Synchron player and inside the player chose the percussion library with your thunder-sheet. You should probably best use the VelXF presets of VSL for percussion instrument (woodwinds e.g. would use velocity.).

You then probably also have to create a percussion map with at least the basic techniques available for the thunder-sheet and eventually (assuming you have Synchron Percussion there are 8 staring from C3). Eventually you can also add an expression map to be able to switch sheets from medium to large and vice versa with an indication above the staff.

It is a bit of work but once done you can save the whole setup as an end point configuration and add that to a playback template (see manual)

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I am going to solve this the right way as recommended above, but a femporary solution is to put the thundersheet in the score, export the final audio from Dorico, and then add the thundersheet sound in a sequencer. That is a sloppy workaround, though

I’m still a little confused why this doesn’t work automatically without all the steps.

It’s always worth reviewing NPPE pages for whatever engine you are using to see what instruments and articulations are supported from the library. Unfortunately not all instruments or techniques are always supported by the engines even if they exist in the library, and percussion is a bit undersupported in my opinion though hopefully this can change in the future – for example I have both BBC and CinePerc which have things like gong and cymbal bows and scrapes, neither of which can be used with NPPE (it will instead default to its own sounds).

In order for myself to access stuff like cymbal scrapes alongside my normal NPPE template, I basically do the same as @mavros said, you have to create a separate VST instance and connect with a percussion map you build. It requires a little bit of setup time but as mentioned you can save this as a template or importable maps for next time so it’s a lot easier to handle in the future.

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Hi, Trying to figure this out. I got this far.


In this instance of the VSLplayer, I selected the percussion matrix that has a thundersheet.
I saved the endpoint although I am not sure what that did (does).

I am not clear how to make a note on the score play this. In VSL percussion, different instruments are mapped to different notes. The “normal” thundersheet (not bowed) would be a low C.

When I add thundersheet in setup in Dorico, I get a single line staff. I guess I need a 5-line bass clef so I can specify the note.

What’s next? And thanks.

In short, you have to go into the percussion map editor and map thundersheet to whichever note it is in VSL; once connected to a normal percussion single-line staff, as long as it is mapped correctly it should work.

I feel that this channel has great tutorials on the subject of creating maps especially with a focus on hybrid setups like ours. I learned a lot from these:

Hopefully these can help. He also has other videos on his channel about setting up endpoint configurations and playback templates which might also be of interest.

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Hi @konradh this is a relatively deep field, especially with the many articulations that VSL libraries have. Just to point you in the right direction, especially for VSL libraries, (beside the other helpful comments and suggestions):

in the Synchron Player you can see which articulations are assigned to which midi notes, clicking on the little keyboard icon in the Synchron Player, to open the Key info Panel, where you find vertically specified the midi notes corresponding to the various articulations. In this example I opened SYNCHRONized Special Editions/Orchestral Percussion, and you see that the Thundersheet articulations start form C1 (Thundersheet Tremolo) and then C#1 (Thundersheet Shake forte)…etc…and so on till B1. (as seen in nr. 4 and 5)

You need to insert this informations in a newly created Percussion Map, where you define the midi notes and the corresponding name of articulations and playing techniques…(I inserted the first two “sounds”, tremolo and shake, in my example)
Don’t forget to click Apply, before you click on OK!

Then you need to assign this created percussion map to the thundersheet track:

You can then create or edit the needed playing technique/s corresponding to the “sound” of the library, and it’s/their connection to the respective playback technique/s:

alternative/optional step

Alternatively you can specify (editing the instrument playing techniques) the needed connections with the articulations and tremolos (using the + at the bottom left of the editor), or you can create separate noteheads that correspond to different playing techniques (using the + on the upper left of the editor)

(I assigned in the below example , the first two sounds of the vsl library):

At the end of this process, you can then write your thunder sheet on one line, and using different playing techniques, (or repetition markings or different noteheads, if you used the alternative method above), you can hear the different sounds, that are redirected automatically by the percussion map to the correct midi notes:

You can also save the endpoint configuration (clicking on the gear icon *), and add it to a personalised playback template, editing one, and clicking on Add Manual, to add your saved endpoint configuration **, putting then it at the first place of the list ***
(and the reapplying your playback template):

(*)

(**)

(***)

It is a fact that this is a complex field, but with very powerful possibilities. I hope I did not confuse you more. (and If I made some mistakes in my workflow, sorry…I hope someone corrects me)

I suggest warmly this video for further explanations (some user interface windows changed with the more actual versions of Dorico, but the concepts remain basically the same…):

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Thank you all for taking the time to detail all of this! You are nice people.

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@Christian_R,
I am not getting anywhere with this. I got this far:


But I can’t edit anything in those fields next to C1 (Name, Instrument, Playback Technique), etc. I’m starting to feel stupid because I can’t figure out how to make any progress on this.

Later on, I will worry about putting several percussion instruments on a grid. For now, I just want to make Dorico play this thundersheet sound. I am ready to pay someone a consulting fee if he or she will show me how to make this work.

I am very frustrated.

Hi @konrad you just select the row that you want to edit, and you insert the information for that row in the Edit Drum Kit Note zone of the window, directly below. And don’t forget to click apply before switching raws! :slight_smile: :

OK. So I created the percussion map.

I added the Synchon Player in PLAY and opened it to select Orchestral Percussion.

In Setup mode, I added Thundersheet to the score.


Dorico does not make any sound when I add a note to the score.

I suspect that when I added Thundersheet in setup, Dorico did not know that was the Thundersheet I added as a VST.

I also did this:

But I can’t find this instrument in Setup.

Hi @konradh
After this step, you need to assign the vst with the vsl thundersheet, to the thundersheet track, in the Track Inspector, assign the percussion map you created, and there edit the endpoint configuration (clicking on the gear icon) rename the endpoint configuration, limit the midi channels and audio outputs to 1, and save it.

I have forgotten: also very important is to assign the expression map Velocity+mood wheel dynamic to the same track!!:

(I noticed that the shake on C#1 in VSL Synchronised special edition, is quite short sounding: maybe you want to use the note on D#1 in you percussion map for the Shake: this sounds as long as the note notated is.)

Sorry for all the trouble. I had already done what is in your first picture in your last post. I just now did that last step in your second picture. Still no sound.

Also, I can use tremolo bars to indicate tremolo, but I don’t know how to tell Dorico I want a shake.

Hi @konradh no problem :slight_smile: (I sent you also a private message).

Just to check your issue: do you hear any sound when clicking on the keyboard keys of the Thundersheet, directly in the Synchron Player plugin in Dorico ?

You probably have seen it VSL has launched a Dorico Wizzard. You can choose the libraries you want to include (incl, SY Percussion) and it then creates a playback template for you with all SY player instances, the expression and percussion maps included. So you need very little knowledge of the whole set up process.

Just one warning it is best to start with a new project or at least one without own expression maps or percussion maps for VSL SY instruments included as it dors not overwrite your maps if they have the same name…

So best start with a new project using e.g. classic orchestra add additional instruments in the setup and then go to Play and choose the VSL default playback template.

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