tie into 2nd ending - splitted tie when Coda

Hi folks,

how will Dorico deal with certain appearances of ties such like ties into 1st and second ending or a tied note on 4 (in brackets) into a coda which should only be played when going to coda? And playback? :wink:

These kinds of complex repeat structures are not yet handled at all by Dorico, but we have thought about them quite a lot. We hope to come up with a way of drawing ties, slurs, and other similar markings at the points at which the music jumps back to an earlier position, or jumps forward from an earlier position. Exactly how this will work remains to be seen at this point.

I meant to add: we wouldnā€™t draw a half tie in the way you show in your picture. We would draw a complete curve. Half-ties and slurs are to be avoided, and Dorico doesnā€™t support them.

Thanks, Danielā€¦

the template I used for this quick shot was actually a publishers default soā€¦ :smiley:

For the playback have a look at the arranger-feature in Cubaseā€¦

Could this issue with a tie to the 2nd ending or Coda be resolved in the meantime? For notation view I have activated the Laissez-Vibrer-Tie. But then you have to move in Engrave mode the tie from right to left (to the last bar of the 1st ending). However, when playing back the note is hit, instead of only sounding on as it would do within a tie. Another work around would be to move the 1st ending where the tie note begins and, in the 2nd ending start with this bar where the tie begins. Then when playing back the tied notes sound correct. Or another solution is exporting the midi file and correct there the tied note in the 2nd ending. However, it would be fine to have a solution in Dorico.

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This is one of the long-awaited features. Iā€™ll be glad when itā€™s there, so that weā€™ll just have to write ā€œdo as specified hereā€ as an answer (and I have to admit I am not really fond of the reversed l.v. tie either)

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To currently achieve correct playback in Dorico of a tie into a 2nd ending, consider the following example:

Tie into 2nd Ending

The first note in each ending is a quarter note with its playback suppressed and a laissez vibrer tie moved to the left in engrave mode. The last note before the first ending is a quarter note with its playback end offset set to 444 so it has about the same played duration as a half note. The playback end offset is measured in ticks, and Dorico uses 480 ticks per quarter note.

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Thank you, John, for your hints. How are you suppressing the 2nd tied note (in grey in your screenshot)? I have searched the manual but could not find such topic to mute or suppress a note.

For note whole note dā€™ā€™ in bar 13 I have now set in properties ā€œNotes and Restsā€ the Playback end offset to value 1200 (= 5*240). The playback mode of tied note dā€™ in bar 14 is fine.

2022-07-25 Playback end offset of tied whole note bar 13

And in bar 17 I have set the velocity of laissez vibrer note dā€™ā€™ to zero, so it cannot be heard in playback.
2022-07-25 Velocity of l.v. tied note zero

suppressPlayback

Bernhard, the D whole note in bar 13 should not be tied to the D quarter note in bar 14. The D quarter note at the start of each ending should have its playback suppressed by setting the property Derrek has shown and should have a laissez vibrer tie which is moved to the left in engrave mode. If you want the noteheads for the suppressed notes to be black instead of grey, execute the command View>Note And Rest Colors and uncheck Suppressed Playback.

In addition, the playback end offset for the D whole note in bar 13 should be the difference between the desired played duration (which in your case is five beats in 4/4 time) and the notated duration (which is four beats), so the playback end offset should be somewhat smaller than 480 ticks as in my example.

The problem with dreaming up examples later in the day or overnight is that I often think of a better way of doing things the following day. Here is a much simpler way to achieve correct playback of a tie into a 2nd ending:

Image

The note which spans the barline leading into the 1st ending is just an ordinary half note with no playback end offset. As before, the quarter note at the start of the 2nd ending has its playback suppressed and has a laissez vibrer tie moved to the left in engrave mode.

Note that both my earlier example and this one only work correctly if the tied-to notes in the 1st and 2nd endings have the same duration.

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Oh, now I see, thanks for your useful support.

Great, I like your 2nd way better, thatā€™s quiet easier. Yes I am aware that they should have the same duration in both endings. I have this issue with the Coda, where before the Coda the tied note in bar 34 and 35 the tied note is a whole + a half and in the Coda jump from bar 34 to 36 the tied note is a whole and a quarter. However with the suppressed note at least the note in bar 36 is not hit again. That helps a lot.

By the way I have exported the score with the new setting to midi and in my DAW and the duration of the Coda jump is correct with a tied whole and quarter note. So no adjustment has been necessary.