Timo: That new Steinberg / Yamaha controller....

I humbly suggest you ditch the “viral marketing” stuff and just announce it. There are people out there buying Euphonix controllers etc that perhaps would wait if they knew there was an alternative coming up this fall…

just my 2 cents…

A very good post over at gearslutz regarding compatibility with other daws:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/7014431-post30.html

BUT - it only works with Cubendo, and in the future that’s gonna be a dealbreaker for me. I need to be in Pro Tools now on about half my jobs so I have to get something that will work across the board - possibly if it’s even just a HUI mode. If Steinberg’s solution doesn’t, well, I’m out.

I feel the same way since I work with c,n,and pt

I completely agree.

Here is part of today’s release:

http://www.gearjunkies.com/news_info.php?news_id=6755

You know, I’m happy both that Steinberg is still doing “well” and is putting out new products, but I can’t help but say that their handling of Nuendo, especially compared to Cubase, has me a bit… befuddled…

5 products now, marketed primarily towards the Cubase owners: Two previous interfaces, a controller, and now two more “pro-sumer” looking interfaces… And still nothing for Nuendo, not to mention 12-month leap frogging…

It just looks really… weird…

Oddly - feels more to me like somewhere out there - albeit way way out there (for now) over that distant horizon - is the very faintest hint of conclusion to our “N” class application…

The exact same thing is happening over at Sony with their venerable Acid. Haven’t had a major upgrade of that since 2008 and there seems to be nothing coming…no info, no innuendo, rumors or anything…while others apps in their line like Vegas continue to shine like supernovas…

I certainly hope that I am wrong…

VP

Hi,

these new, handy controllers we’ve released this week are the beginning. We’re still constantly working on
further very interesting products and solutions, which means we will increase the number of products that
are the result of the cooperation Steinberg-Yamaha, for various purposes - and in various price ranges.

Thanks,
Timo

Ok. The above is pretty much exactly what I heard from a Steinberg employee… at the last AES you attended in NYC (4 years ago?)!!!

So really it doesn’t do anything to “calm” those who want/need a Cubendo controller that looks like more than a consumer product.

I really don’t get the following:

  1. Why you can’t simply tell us that you’re developing a mid-/high-end controller that’ll be aimed at the same crowd Nuendo is aimed at, with a very rough time line for it,

  2. Why you haven’t asked us users for what we’d like to see in one! You set up a separate section, “Nuendo Inside”, and then let it wither. Nothing since April. That’s close to half a year, a bit longer than the “every month a new topic” goal you wanted to achieve, wouldn’t you say? It would have been the perfect venue to ask:

a) What people would like to see in one or several controllers, and
b) What people think about the marketing etc of it.

My point with this thread was that your marketing kind of sucks. I stand by that. The users that are disappointed about this are so because you didn’t set any expectations. You simply provided a crappy “viral marketing” video and got some peoples hopes up that you’d come out with some sort of professional looking controller. Now they’re disappointed. You could have avoided that by clearly stating your goals.

But then again; we go through this dance every year and it takes you at least two to listen and act upon it (NEK, online downloads etc).

Like I said, I’m just baffled that you keep spitting out these budget products for Cubase creating the impression that Nuendo is an afterthought, and that you, as far as I can see, did not ask for any opinions by users about what a line of controllers should contain, seeing that this is arguably the biggest add-on to your product line recently…

Considering those who are considering getting Nuendo, or ditching Nuendo and moving to Pro Tools, you haven’t really done yourself a favour in my opinion.

Hello,

we attended the last AES NY in 2009. A big controller solution has ALWAYS been a request for Nuendo. Did you have a look at WK Audio’s new surfaces? One of the best controllers for Nuendo (still). But I guess you want to have something different…Be sure that we’ve ask many people what they’d like to see in our controllers, even if not everything ends up in a public survey. One result of these evaluations tours, that were done in several countrys, was that people wanted to have a small sized controller of good quality, which can act as addition to what they already have (e.g. CC121), something that is powerful but fits on a small desk. Now you are telling me, all results and opinions are completely wrong. Ask 10 people and you’ll get at least 5 different answers.

I know that you (and others) are waiting for the classical “big” system and I’m not allowed to say more than we’re working on something. This is nothing you can do overnight, especially when you just don’t want to “copy” solutions that are already available on the market. It has already taken some years but we’re on a good way and have made good progress. As soon as I can say more about this, I’ll let you know.

And regarding Nuendo Inside, I agree that we’re behind the plan since we did not have too many interested participants in the previous session. Now in autumn, we will continue to start new sessions.

Thanks,
Timo

Timo, I think that the number of people interested will depend on what features you want to talk about. It will always be this way, because each of us has our own requests. For example, the main reasons that I can’t mix in Nuendo are:

  1. I get PT sessions from the studios and need to use Playlists
  2. Even when it’s all recorded in my studio PT wins with the “match tracks” feature, which saves hours.

Talk about either of those two features, and I’m sure you’ll get lots of interested parties. I would bet that you will even find people who don’t normally post on the forum signing up to discuss them. :wink:

DG

Sorry, did I say that all opinions are completely wrong? No, I did not.

I’m not saying that nobody wanted a CC121, or that nobody is enjoying it. What I was saying, and I stand by this, is that I have never seen you guys ask what people that run Nuendo would want in one controller, or a series of controllers. And I’m also saying that you guys have a tendency to release a bunch of stuff for “lower end” usage, pro-sumer and consumer basically, and not a lot for Nuendo specifically (or marketed for it).

So what you brought up doesn’t change that at all.

And that’s exactly what I was talking about. It’s been years, and you still say virtually nothing. So users are going to wonder what the future is for Nuendo.

Try to put yourself in the shoes of a Nuendo user who’s been with you since version 1.x. You wait… and Houston shows up… gets discontinued… You get bought by Yamaha… so we wait… and wait… and wait… and then someone says at AES: “I can’t comment, but of course we’re looking at something” (paraphrased)… so we wait… and we wait… and we wait… and we see Cubase gear… and we wait… and…

and then here you are saying what was said 2 years ago. So do we wait another 2 years? While you continuously put out new Cubase gear? Stuff for the iPad?..

IF a Nuendo user wants a controller that sits, say, between the Avid Artist series and the high end stuff that’s about 9-10k in price, and doesn’t want to buy into a small company like WK-Audio but instead wants something from a huge company like Yamaha with resources to support it - what are the options? Other than to wait?

The options are to jump ship. That’s what the options are.

And for the prospective buyer it looks strange as well. You’re continusously putting out Cubase stuff, marketing it towards what appears to be at best the pro-sumer level. Upgrades and Updates for Nuendo always about a year after Cubase. Why buy into your flagship product?

Avid can afford to not tell their users exactly what’s coming, because they dominate the post market. In addition, they offer controllers on virtually all levels, from bedroom hobbyist to Hollywood productions… It just doesn’t seem to me that you can afford the same.

Well, you wanted to control how people talked and started a new section of the forum. So now that’s what you get. When people can express themselves freely you usually get more participants. Like DG said, you pick the topic, and then only those that are interested in that topic (and have time etc) end up replying to it. It’s different when you have a “free flow”.

But then of course when you do, you’ll have to either ignore or respond to all the other issues users have with your software.

It’s just that to me at least, a few things seemed completely obvious when reading user comments especially in the old forum. I mean, super-clear. We can take for example the NEK, the exclusion of notation in a way earlier version, the option of software downloads instead of hard-copy-only, etc. In several cases users had legitimate opinions about this, and you could have found this out way sooner, and adjusted more nimbly and swiftly if you had listened to your users. You just don’t seem to do that.

But whatever, to me it seems as if many of us users are simply barking up the wrong tree…

Yep,

Steinberg picks the topics of the Nuendo Inside sessions. Never, ever has any Steinberg employee asked about control surfaces for nuendo. That would be a hot inside session. But there is something coming we had no way to contribute to… other than select people Steinberg chose to ask…

Steinberg has and will probably always will assign what they choose. Look, we were promised certain things we asked for years and were told they would come in the 5.x cycle only to be told they would be in version 6 now. Proof is in Steinberg’s actions. And how stupid was I to think they would follow through… very stupid I was.

Oh well… I hope it turns out well when the new Nuendo exclusive control surface is announced… when and if it ever comes. Screw it… I am going to buy a WK audio control surface! :laughing: riiiight…

Thanks Timo for clearing things up! :mrgreen:

Even if you make a joke out of it, there are many new installations of the new WK Audio controller in recent times…And, I cannot “clear things up” in this regard by now. I’m just repeating myself here.

First of all, the development of a system solution does not have something to do with the future of Nuendo as a software-only product, which is developed by other people. I agree that, from a user perspective, it’s been a long time
since Yamaha has taken over Steinberg and for sure everybody wants to see the outcome of this collaboration as early as possible. From a development point of view, both companies (one with hardware focus, one with software focus) have to be linked to each other. In terms of planning, development, testing, distribution. Considering the size of the companies, this has taken some time. Meanwhile everything’s “in line” and we’re able
to increase the development speed.

But why don’t we see even more from Steinberg/Yamaha?
Because it takes time to turn a product idea into reality. We don’t want to build something that is already on the market. It has to be something “new” and we have to build it from scratch. And that means development of hardware and certain software adaptations has to go hand in hand. It also means, beside delivering new features for our products, we have to develop a software/hardware interconnection in parallel. And yes, it takes a very long time. And yes, people are waiting. But it should be done the right way - software/hardware connection, reliability, usability, look&feel, build quality. There is nothing I can add to this at the moment.

Thanks,
Timo

It’s not about “controlling”. It’s about making the results exploitable. We’ve had that quite often that topics are being discussed over 20+ pages with a shift to totally different topics within one thread. Although I do like to see active communication and am happy about every topic that is being discussed here in the forums, one has to be careful if this should be the way major development decisions are based on. There’s much room for misinterpretion. That’s why we have special rules for the Nuendo Inside section. There is no other reason for that.

Btw, in 2009 we conducted a large public survey about Nuendo and hardware (on Steinberg.net international website). The number of participants was huge. And the results were very interesting and will be considered during further software and hardware developments.

Thanks,
Timo

That’s what I meant by “control”. I’m just saying that the lesser participation was predictable.

Well, if some users feel that the software-only product is neglected, both in terms of too little or no hardware at a particular price/performance segment and in terms of slow upgrades / updates, then showing no hardware development for Nuendo but plenty for Cubase doesn’t inspire confidence in the future of the app.

But we’re not seeing it. And getting you to say even that is like pulling teeth.

Well see right here you’re making an assumption about the market.

Granted, one certainly hopes that you have way more information than I do, but from what I’ve seen plenty of people would have been happy with much deeper integration of the pro-mixers with Nuendo, something that, one would think, wouldn’t take years and years of planning but could be done fairly rapidly.

Yes, a “temporary quick fix”, but at least something.

Yeah, we know… you can’t say… that’s exactly the problem we’re pointing out…

I wasn’t saying the WK surface was not good. I have no way (being in the U.S.) to check one out locally. That’s why I said “Riiiiight” and if I did, I would be paying $20,000 UDS for one most likely based on the pricing seen on their website.