I know I’ve asked this before, and I also know there are other threads on this but I really wanted to make this a priority post. So, sorry for broaching this again. This problem occurred today as I predicted it would and it was a very, very unprofessional situation for me to be in.
I work on a TV singing show where, in rehearsals we reguarly change keys to suit the singer. We had a song that goes through 3 keys and we wanted to try the whole thing down a semitone. Dorico wouldn’t let me do it all in one go as the 3 original keys were D, E and Gb. I ended up having to do things in separate sections because of the way Dorico works in intervals instead of semitones. Time is of the essence and there are a room full of people: band, singer, production executives, vocal coach and it’s all being filmed and, because I had to rush I ended up missing a 4 bar section. When I used Finale all I had to do was select the whole score and tell Finale what my initial key would be and that was it. No reason for any errors to occur. I’m trying to keep cool writing this post but I was frustrated when this happened.
The rest of my experience of Dorico has been fantastic and this has been my only beef with using it. I first raised this point when I transferred from Finale in August last year and have mentioned it in other threads maybe another 2 or 3 times. PLEASE look at this. The transposition window is too complicated (as I’ve said before). Can it not just be in semitones or keys? Or maybe just have a ‘simplify’ slider as part of it and Dorico wraps the keys. In any case, I find it extremely frustrating and not intuitive at all. All I want it to do is change the whole score up or down starting in the key of my choosing.
To achive what you want to achieve, the key changes have to also be selected when you invoce the “Transpose” command. (Which TBH follow Dorico’s rules that only selected items will receive a command - compore the handling of triplets where you need to also select the “3”.)
But it’s not always easy to do this: When you select everything from the first note to the last note using shift+click, key changes do not get selected. When you use the system track instead to select everything, key changes will get selected. When you select the first note and invoke “Select To End Of Flow”, key changes will again not get selected. And if you user ctrl+a to select everything, key changes will be included.
And after invoking the “Transpose” command, the key changes will not be selected anymore, but the notes still are.
But, for your current use case: If you select everything using ctrl+a and apply the first transposition, everything should follow, including all other key changes down the road.
I don’t think so, unfortunately. With D, E and Gb KS to be transposed 1/2 tone lower, it would imply at one point either Gbb (augmented unison) or D# major (minor second), so Dorico won’t accept to transpose the KS.
Ah, you are right, I didn’t try this very case (or think of it), just simpler ones.
Now that you mentioned it, I remember Daniel pointing this out not too long ago.
Actually, in a different situation, I realized Dorico can do it.
Here, with a transposition override in a duplicated layout, it correctly transposes everything 1/2 tone lower, adjusting the transposition type to avoid non-existent key signatures (respectively unison+, unison+, dim. 2nd)
This is super easy in Finale. If using Key Signature transposition, Select All, then select the first key be transposed, select Transpose All Keys Proportionally and Wrap Keys if Necessary. Done. It would be great if this could be done all in one go in Dorico too.
Wasn’t this one of the no-go phrases around here?
Kidding aside, I fully agree that such a quick transpose function by chromatic shifting and having the software work out the most readable enharmonics by itself is one of the few things sorely missed in Dorico - especially because its playback prowess predestines it for use in rehearsing and practising, more than for example Sibelius ever could, and even back then the latter was a staple in some of my practising settings.
Using Alt/Opt + Shift + Arrow is a super easy way to transpose notes in Dorico, and is useful in a Select All global situation when I am using Open key. It would be great if it would also work on key sigs if they were selected too. If I could transpose both notes and key sigs that way, I’d probably never even bother using the Transposition dialog.
I may not be seeing the whole panorama here. So I apologize in advance if the following does not make any sense.
In this case (transposing a whole “Flow” with key signature changes), would it be an option to duplicate the layout and use the clef and transposition overrides? It would be as quick as Finale, and you would still have the original layout. I can even imagine having a Dorico file as a template with different layouts and your most frequently used transpositions. As you enter your music, the transpositions would already be there (that would be even quicker as in Finale).
Depending on the complexity of the music, this workflow might work better or worst, but i think it is worth trying it.
The OP is copying for a band for a TV show, he’s not just quickly transposing a lead sheet. He’d have to do that for every single part in the band. It would also make file management a bit of a mess down the road if the parts are used again. “Wait, what key did we do this in?”
“Feeling Good”, Bublé version?
I actually did this tune not too long ago, and I did transpose everything separately. In that case it was just a simple leadsheet though…
This lack of functionality has been one of my biggest frustrations as a new Dórico user. It such a simple task that ends up being way too hard and leaves one prone to errors like the OP. There’s so many other great things about dórico but could we please improve this!!!
There’s lots of ways this could be done but please make this happen!
Thank you for clarifying, this wasn’t quite obvious from his post and I already wanted to ask what the task Dorico needs to fill for him in this case exactly is. The outcome was that the lot of us threw in several approaches and personal use cases - which itself isn’t a bad thing, but rather aimless when we want to suggest a workaround for the time being as long as this core functionality is not yet implemented.
In my own playback-oriented case for example, a global pitch shift set between the score and all of the pitched VSTs (as I have already requested here) would suffice and be even a slightly more elegant solution, but wouldn’t affect the score itself and thus be rather useless for the OP.
As an alternative workflow, you could Select All and use Alt/Opt + Shift + Arrow to lower everything a semitone. That way you are assured you didn’t accidentally miss any music. Dorico will move from key sig to key sig with the arrow too, so you could then manually change each key sig. You’d probably need a Select All then Write / Respell / Respell Notes Automatically too in order to fix any odd enharmonics. In any case, that would assure no music was left out, and you don’t need to use the Transpose dialog. Gif below:
(I’ve taken the liberty of removing the “URGENT PLEASE” from the subject of this thread. This may be a highly desired improvement by some, but it’s not urgent – it doesn’t need immediate attention.)
Well, it is pretty urgent as I am still in rehearsals and will be for a while. And this problem will recur (I have already transcribed 60 songs and I know what’s coming up). This is not about sitting at home or a desk and being able to take time in doing these changes - we have to get through many singers per day and there is no time to sit and think; it has to be done immediately. So not being distracted by any extraneous actions is paramount - I don’t want to have to think about what I need to do; I just need to be able to do it
Anyone who has ever worked as a rehearsal copyist feels your pain, LOL! I’ve been there. No one notices the 99.99% of the stuff you do correctly, or all the composer/arranger errors you catch, they only notice when you eff up, and not transposing a few bars obviously is an error. Unless they move on to another tune and come back, the entire production grinds to a halt while they wait on you to do your work. The fact that Dorico (in version 6!) can’t easily, quickly, and error-free accommodate a simple “hey, let’s try this down a half step” is a a pretty big shortcoming IMO.
