I think the problem comes down to two different ways of understanding and conceiving these clefs: (1) as a mere optional reminder that the notes sound an octave lower or higher, as they always do (tenor voice, sometimes piccolo, double bass etc.); and (2) as a positive direction to play an octave lower or higher than normal (piano, percussion). These are two distinct uses of 8va (and 15ma) clefs. How Dorico will handle such complication time will tell.
My vote would be that there are 2 different types of clefs: visual only and actionable, sort of like real rests and incipits, with some way of discriminating them on screen (perhaps a colorized clef for “visual only”).
OK - thank you. I can live it, it’s just a bit confusing when ‘proof-hearing’. 
One can adjust the octave of the Tenor sounds in the HALion player and (IIRC) via an Expression Map setting in Play mode.
(Like you, I do not consider this arrangement ideal, particularly when working with third-party sounds; so I would also support musicmaven’s suggestion for a dual option for the tenor-G clef.)
Might it not be better to have only one clef, with a switch in the property pane for whether it actually does anything or not?
I’ll let the Dorico Team determine that; the results are pretty much the same thing.
(But then someone will say one involves two clicks instead of one and complain about it. 
)
Ben, very good suggestion!
Best ever 
Ok…i have 1 instrument called ‘choir’.
At a certain point I want to split into soprano, alto, tenor, bass…I don’t want to create a new instrument for each voice, I just create a ‘divisi’.
I’m using a bass-clef for the bass → it works perfectly
I’m using a Treble 8ba for the tenor → it doesn’t work
In this case it is really bad, that the Treble 8ba clef doesn’t transpose. Because I’m using 1 instrument with a divisi… I can’t solve the problem via the expression map or via using another midi-channel with a transposed plug in.
I even tried to write everything 1 octave higher, use a ‘8 basso’ line and hide the ‘8 basso’ line…but you can’t hide the 8 basso line in Dorico…that would have been at least a workaround…
aaahhh…I found a workaround:
- write everything 1 octave higher with the Treble 8ba clef (the clef having no effect)
- use a ‘8 basso’ line
- go on ‘properties’
- ‘user definied scaling’ → set it to ‘0’
→ you won’t see the ‘8 basso’ line anymore and you’ll hear the sound in the desired octave
Presumably you’re using a separate voice, and Dorico 3 has voice-independence in Play mode. Also, what’s to stop you scaling an 8ba line to 1% and colouring white?
…just found the same workaround → colouring white doesn’t work by the way, but scaling to 0 is the way to do it…
I write some music in the treble clef 15ma upper. I put the Piccolo as instrument.
When I play the music, it sounds an octave lower as what is written.
On the play mode, the notes are correctly written at their corresponding octave.
Openin Halion sonic, I can play the notes on the little piano and hear the correct sound.
But when I play the file, it still sounds an octave lower.
Similar problem in the text written on bass clef 15ma lower. Same solution, I hope?
Welcome to the forum, bohy. Octave clefs don’t affect the playback pitch of notes written in the score. If you want to change the octave in playback, your best bet is to use an exrpession map that transposes by one or more octaves.
I really which that the 8va and even the 15va / vb clefs should playback properly. In contemporary music piano parts using the whole rage are sometimes written in 4 systems the highes using a treble 15va clef.
I’m using them all the time for guitar, and even tenor sax and bass clarinet etc. although it’s not standard it clarifies things for me (and the player)
So please try to give this issue a higher priority as it is “wrong” playback if the don’t change the pitch.
Daniel, about your work around. Is it possible to assign a expression map to a clef? If not it will then not be possible to change the clef within the part.
If you put a separate instance of the instrument on the separate “clef”/staff and use a separate MIDI channel to access it, you can apply a transposing expression map (or change the transposition in the HALion player). You then would hide the extra staff when not needed.
+1 on this. As these clefs are being used for more instruments then they have been traditionally, there is a need for functional versions of these clefs. I have a client who wrote an extended piano work (62 pgs) using these clefs extensively. I redesigned them in Engrave/Music Symbols to make the 8 and 15 more legible (clef changes seem way too easy to miss to me), but I prepared it both ways and I think I have finally convinced him just to go with normal octave lines. It’s likely that these will continue to see use in situations where they need to be functional though, so I’d like to see Dorico support this without workarounds like adding another instrument.
There’s no need to add another instrument. Dorico 3 has independent voice playback. It might be tricky to keep track of it if you’re using four or five different voices across a grand staff in any given bar, but it’s certainly possible:
Good point! I still think it would be a good feature for Dorico to actually have functioning ottava clefs as an option so they can be used in non-octave transposing instruments such as piano. That may not have been their traditional usage, but it is a contemporary usage and should be supported.
I realize different voices could be used, but the OP said he was adding a separate staff, so it seemed a separate instrument instance was simpler than going through divisi/added staves, etc.
As it happens I spent yesterday night implementing this feature (a new option in Notation Options that allows you to specify whether the octave indicator on the clef should be respected, which allows you to turn it on or off for each flow – though not for an individual clef change, which seems several bridges too far to me). So provided it passes muster with our testing department, it should be included in the next version of Dorico, and I look forward to never hearing about it again.
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