The problem: I have a score with 2 trombones in tenor clef. I want to keep the tenor clefs in the score and produce alternate parts in bass clef. I’ve made my two new Part layouts and assigned the trombone lines to them, but Clef and Transposition Overrides seems to have no effect - I’m guessing because of the explicit tenor clef I had to set at the beginning of each in the score. I’ve played around with various permutations of clef properties but can’t find a combination that gives me tenor in the score, parts in tenor, and alternate parts in bass. Any workarounds? Or is my only solution to copy/paste into new parts and change the clefs?
Is there a way of achieving what you want without an explicit clef - you should be able to override their clefs in the score as well as the parts, so you could set them to use a tenor clef in the score and one set of parts but bass clefs in the other parts?
Yes, have just realised you can do clef overrides in the score as well as the parts (why didn’t I realise this before? ) so that’s exactly what I did. Bass clef trombones, tenor overrides in score and 1 set of parts.
EDIT: One other thing I’ve discovered is that if the clef changes to bass (and maybe also back again) later in the music you need to untick “Transposing layout” for your bass clef parts in Layout Options ->Players, and then you can set the “Show for transposition” property on the clef changes to “Transposing layout” to hide them in the bass parts while retaining them in the score and the other parts.
Just a thought for the team, but a choice of clefs in the instrument selector as well as transpositions would make this sort of thing even easier. Trombones in alto and tenor clef are common enough to warrant this I would say.
Related problem: Same score has 4 Horns in F and I need alternate parts for Horns in Eb. There are bass clef changes in the F parts which would not be appropriate for Eb (tenor horn players do not read bass clef). Score needs to have them, and is a transposing layout, but the Eb horn part also has to be a transposing layout, so the clef changes cannot be targeted with “Show for transposition” property as above. Any way round this?
The only dynamic way would be to create a new Eb horn player, cue the entirety of the F Horn player into the Eb horn player then scale up and remove the cue label. Unassign the Eb horn player from the score in Setup mode. Propagate Part formatting from the right panel of Setup mode. It may be possible to override the clef for the entire cue, or you may have to do a separate cue each time the clef changes in the Eb horn; I can’t remember.
Repeat for the other three horns.
It’s probably quicker and easier to do a wholesale copy and paste rather than a Cue - the other steps are the same - but if you do that then you lose the dynamic link, so if you change something in the F horns you’ll have to remember to update the Eb horn staves separately.
Thanks Leo. Yes, I think copy/paste is the quickest way for now.
For subsequent clef changes, can you not use the options for hiding/showing clefs in layouts according to their transposition and/or changing the type of clef shown at those clef change positions? Rather than changing whether the layout itself is transposing/concert pitch.
Can you explain a bit more fully? My understanding is that both the F Horn parts and the Eb Horn parts would be transposing layouts, so I’m not sure how the options you’ve mentioned would help.
It’s possible that I just completely misread an earlier post - reading it now, it looks completely different to what I remembered! Apologies.
Exactly this. It’s a quirk of the system that instruments that don’t transpose, such as trombones, can be made to be transposing or non-transposing layouts and this behaviour directed at them accordingly, but because of the need to actually BE a transposing instrument, other instruments such as horns can’t.
The killer would be if “Show for transposition” could be a local property rather than a global one, and then could be turned on/off on a per-layout basis, but I guess there’s a good reason why it can’t.